Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,901
Posts557,099
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,416
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
12 members (esshup, PRCS, Boondoggle, Layne, Dylanfrely, nvcdl, H20fwler, Bing, Fishingadventure, Angler8689, Sunil, jpsdad), 709 guests, and 219 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 125
T
TMK Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 125
I have a new 1.5 acre pond which is now just getting through the first summer season. So far the only significant aquatic weeds in it are some algae. I'd really like to accelerate (Plant & spread) some lilys and cattails. Are there any fast ways to do this? Waiting for mother nature could take a LONG time at this rate.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
Consider various types of water iris or sweet flag instead of cattails. Cattails spread too fast, grow to deep, grow too tall (can't fish over or through them), and produce too much fodder that decomposes and makes thick black muck. Water iris do not have those problems for a smaller 1.5 acre pond. Other good emergent plants are pickeral weed, water arum, arrowhead, and spike rushes.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/07/09 08:21 AM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
A
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
A
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
TMK, your pond looks good.
Pickerel weed grows really well and can be purchased at many local Lowes stores in the spring.
I got this one there and it was scrawny and half dead when I got it.
Here's what it looked like after 2 years.




Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 186
A
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 186
Developing a small nursery where you can keep young plants from being destroyed by the usual grazing gangs of muskrats, turtles and ducks will make a diff, where you can start off numbers of young plants, grow them on.

It does not have to be extravagant, made from cheap and cheerful 10' wide 6mil plastic sheet, a safe place to tinker with plants that take your fancy, a space where you can have a good thunk as to what is suitable for your location.

You might determine plantain is way, way too invasive, before you risk letting it loose and regretting it. You may evaluate (quite rightly) Laevigata iris hybrids are total and utter gems, and decide to collect those big time

Many aquatic plants have very fast growth and reproduction, for example Arrow Arum will be a bold clump in a year or two dropping dozens of very viable and reliable seed, when it becomes established

Hardy waterlilies can be rampant strong growers when they get the chance to settle in, multiplying x10 or x20 per year, if Mr.Snapping turtle does not scoff them the first weekend it is planted...

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 478
Some water lilies spread fairly fast as Andrew mentions but also some hybirds (dwarf and small varieties) are relatively slow spreaders and rarely moving in to water over 3-4 ft deep.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/07/09 08:18 AM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 186
A
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 186
The urge to plant up a pond with who knows what from who knows where is always an interesting challenge.

You may waste slow growing ornamental plants which just do not have the robust growth rates to cope with the carnage rates of a native planting, or at the other extreme you may regret planting devestating cattails, lotus, odorata waterlilies, spatterdocks, each capable of crushing a pond with their amazing growth and reproduction rates.

Starting aquatic plants off in small nursery and you can choose to phase in those plants which strike a happy balance between coping with local grazing and doing something to look forward to, with less of the risk of giving space over to stuff you regret

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 644
W
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
W
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 644
Hardy lilies can get out of hand in shallow waters pretty quickly, so be aware of that. Hybrid selections are a safer choice and can be spread by digging and dividing them every other year. Iris is a great substitute for cattails, but be aware some of them can spread very quickly via seed (good or bad depending on goals). Water willow is a nice plant for fish habitat and fills a valuable niche while helping to compete with shoreline FA and chara. Pickerel weed looks really nice and rarely gets out of hand. In my case, the muskrats have been chewing it down to the crown this year which angers me. hehe. Sweet flag is another Iris type choice that works really well as a cattail sub and is native to your area. Arrowhead (Sagittaria spp.) is a great plant to add, but in my case, is hit quite hard by waterfowl. Blue Flag could be another consideration. Horsetail is another interesting and pretty plant that is similar in nature to cattail. It is poisonous to horses though if that's an issue for you.



12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
2
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
Wiseguy, you really are wise, thanks for that info.


HUSBAND AND CAT MISSING -$100 REWARD FOR THE CAT!
I subscribe too, but tried and failed at the fish logo.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 21
K
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
K
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 21
As far as the cattails be careful what you wish for. Last time(a month or so ago) I thinned mine out with a honda.lol

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
M
Fingerling
Offline
Fingerling
M
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
Here is a really good native mix for emergent and pond-edge plants:

http://agrecol.com/cms/seed_mixes_page20.aspx

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
A
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
A
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
That's an interesting mix of plants, and I see they've even heard of monkey flower.




Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
I told you, you'd like the MONKEY FLOWER!

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 125
T
TMK Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 125
Ok thanks to all. Some real good advise and some great links. For what its worth maybe I could add some additional details about my new pond which may or may not make a difference?

The Pond was dug with a standard depth to extention ratio of 1/3 ie 3 foot out for one foot of water depth. (By my reckoning the plants at the perimeter of the pond should grow out from the edge maybe about 9 foot plus or minus, unless some millfoil finds it way in.)

The bottom soil type ranges from blue clay to total organic, and the sun light is from total sun all day, to mostly shade all day. The organic bottom is in the shaded area.

Does this narrow the selections any? I'm amazed at how many lilies there are!

We do have plenty of muskrats in Michigan but I have some experience in trapping them. Our winter climate is sometimes sub zero in Jan and Feb.

Thanks to all for all your help.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
A
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
A
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
TMK, from my limited experience pickerel weed and arrowhead do well up here in very poor rocky soil, and we have heavy snow and temps to 30 below, I'm sure there are others but I'll let the experts give you more knowledgeable advice.



Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
2
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 647
I am in SEast Michigan on a sandy lake. I have zebra rush and sweet flag going, they survived along with the Pickerel Weed and Hybrid Water Lily. Remember how cold it was last winter? The lake was frozen from Nov. till March, first time in many years, they were playing ice hockey. I have some other plants growing at the edge in pots that made it too. I face west and get the prevailing winds and wave action here, but I also get the sun well into the evening. That way I can work and come home and it is still sunny here. GF LakeChair across the lake gets shade from 5:p.m. on, I prefer my situation.

Last edited by 2catmom; 10/12/09 09:42 PM.

HUSBAND AND CAT MISSING -$100 REWARD FOR THE CAT!
I subscribe too, but tried and failed at the fish logo.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
I think you can get away with hardy water lilies as the seasonal cold will make them dormant and check thier growth somewhat. There are dozens of varieties, I myself grow over 12. Mostly minitures. Keep away from tropicals as they will just die in the winter.

If you insist on cattails, and I would be careful there, try graceful and or mini. They are much more ornamental. Easier to control and take care of.

I really like rushes. Cape, corkscrew, horsetail and striped, maybe even zebra if they can tolerate the cold. There are many other already mentioned choices in this thread that are great.

I think, or to me I have three questions I ask myself on everyone of these projects.

Do I want permenant plants or just this season?

If I put them in will they take over, can I remove them?

What is my intent?


This is something I do quite often. I guess aquatic landscaping and control is my number one business. Looks like a nice pond.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
Pond Frog:

With your experience with the varying water levels in the ponds from season to season, have you found any plants that will grow in those pond zones? My reason for asking is that my pond will has dropped 5' in depth from Spring to winter, and due to the soil, I'm pretty sure that this will be an annual cycle. I'd like to find something that the fish can utilize for cover when the pond is high, and won't die when the water level drops in late fall. It's normally lowest in mid to late winter. USDA zone 5.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
There are a few I use for marginals with severe water drop. Parrot Feather and Creeping Primrose. They are always rerooting and looking for water. I have them surviving up to 10 feet of water drop. I had an embankment that was a complete dead zone in a pond, zero cover. No fish at all. You would not even fish it. I put creeping primrose on it and completely reversed the area to best in pond. Just loaded with forage, best LMB fishing on the pond. They both follow my can you get it back out question. Just have to keep on top of it. Thick with gambusia and baby bg and lmb year round. Frogs go under for winter, most small one live there. Complete food chain from nothing. But like anything else, if you introduce a potential invasive species you are taking a risk.

Last edited by The Pond Frog; 01/27/10 09:01 PM.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
Is the creeping primrose the Jussiaea repens?
I looked up Parrot Feather and it looks nastier than the primrose (i.e. worse to control and spreads further into the water).

What do you use to keep the primrose under control (keep it contained to the areas that you want it)?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
They are both nasty. Like I said, use at own risk. I get away with hardy water lilies the same way, I plant them at the 4-5 ft deep mark. For a few months they are dead and out of water.

Creeping Water Primrose is the number one creek, ditch and water body plant in my area. Good thing is they are easily removed, even by hand. I had a pond where the guy wanted a clear shoreline, covered with them. Boat and a rake cleared out the entire shoreline one season. They don't root all that deep and pretty much entire plant pulls up. You pile them up out of moisture and they die. Plus the water drawdown every season keeps them thinned. If they float to new areas I just hand pull them. They can handle the cold, drawdown, just about everything. Not much else works. They do not spread that fast in a still pond. I'm fishing all of the time anyway, scanning the shoreline. When I see it where I don't want it I pull it. You can also cut it low to slow it way down. The stuff out of the water pulls right up. But it's value as drawdown tolerant forage cover makes pulling it out in other places worth it. Cost is my labor. If I did not have a dead shoreline and the annual drawdown I would not use it or need it. Every pond is different.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
As The Pond Frog said both species are highly invasive and because of this, many states ban them from transport or purchase. So just be careful moving them. Check your local laws if you are unsure.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,416
Likes: 793
 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
As The Pond Frog said both species are highly invasive and because of this, many states ban them from transport or purchase. So just be careful moving them. Check your local laws if you are unsure.


Definately. That's why I inquired about the scientific name, a perch isn't always a perch. ;\)

I'll also run it by the folks at J. F. New, and see if they have any other suggestions.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 5
J
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615
Likes: 5
 Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog
They are both nasty. Like I said, use at own risk. I get away with hardy water lilies the same way, I plant them at the 4-5 ft deep mark. For a few months they are dead and out of water.


So do the water lilies survive? We'd like to add water lilies to one corner of our pond but with the variance of our water level I though I'd have to plant them in a container and move it with the moving water level which sounds like way too much work.


JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
T
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 914
I am experimenting with certain species. Water lilies are awesome in our neck of the woods. Forget tropicals and minis. They die from cold or are too small and have shallow water requirements. So what I have found from years of trials and tribulations is one species that does surive a 10+ foot drawdown. I also am a supplier to aquatic nurseries and have many wholesale connections. I have propagation and storage tanks just for them.

I'll lay out the logistics as best I can. First, every species has a limit of what it can do. As in how much water it can reach through from the bottom and can it survive a complete out of the water experience. Soil requirements are almost irrelevant. I have seen them grown on muck laying on asphalt, and starting in a 1/4 of silt. I found one strain locally from a pond owner that had them leap out of a wine barrel container and overtake his pond in fifteen year period. His water had some drawdown but they were never out of the water. I took some rhizomes from him and planted them at different depths during a drawdown. The ideal depth was 4-5 feet below surface full. The plants are slow spreading, because of abbreiviated growing season and easy to maintain as they are completely out of the water late Summer. I can dig out any and relocate them without too much trouble. I am experimenting with different colors, but hardies are somewhat limited in color choice, and how many can survive those brutal conditions remains to be seen. Pros are just huge eye pleasers, LMB love them, frogs also. In this application they almost cannot overpopulate. I'll get my pal Omaha to post a stand I started a few years back and describe it.

On containers. On a small pond, containers are not a total disaster, and you can move them up or down. But eventually the rhizomes will break through almost anything. A few drawbacks are the amount of effort required and the soil you put in. It's much easier to plant them directly and let nature determine the outcome. If I don;t have a drawdown pond, containers are much better to prevent spread.

Last edited by The Pond Frog; 01/29/10 12:38 PM.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
O
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
O
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,791
Likes: 14
Pond Frog pics...







Last edited by Omaha; 01/29/10 01:46 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by Boondoggle - 03/28/24 06:28 PM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 06:23 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Dylanfrely - 03/28/24 05:43 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
Alum vs Bentonite/Lathanum for Phosphorus Removal?
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 04:23 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by ewest - 03/28/24 03:37 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5