Forums36
Topics40,964
Posts558,011
Members18,506
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
12 members (Sunil, Jason D, John Folchetti, Lake8, JoshMI, LeighAnn, FishinRod, canyoncreek, Drago, Boondoggle, highflyer, Shorthose),
1,235
guests, and
210
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,934 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,934 Likes: 2 |
Thermostats just keep getting more complicated. They have more stages than Boston's string of album releases
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
Yes, this one has a "flush all toilets @ time" function.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,499 Likes: 267 |
And in your location it needs every function you can think of and they better work right the first and every time least you turn to popsicles.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
And in your location it needs every function you can think of and they better work right the first and every time least you turn to popsicles. No worries, we live in the warm part of Minnesota.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 644
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 644 |
No worries, we live in the warm part of Minnesota.
HA! Warm part of MN. There is no such thing, except in July and August. hehehehe
12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 127
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 127 |
Nice system! We've had ours for a year now and love it.
In addition to the Federal tax credit, we were able to get an energy efficiency credit from our electric coop for installing a geothermal unit. We had to fill out 2 pages of paperwork and now we have a big fat credit on our account. We won't be paying for electricity for several years.
Between the tax credits, electric company credits, and energy savings these things really do pay for themselves pretty quickly.
Last edited by Ack; 12/10/09 11:45 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
Ack, thanks. You are right about the payback. It happens quickly.
Now that our thermostat is programed correctly everything works according to initial design parameters. It still runs on the first stage mostly.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2
Fingerling
|
Fingerling
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2 |
One question for you. Does the Geo keep the and area of the pond open all winter if you live somewhere that it gets down in the single digits at night?
Maybe I am not understanding how this works?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
The Geo system closed loop lies on the bottom of the pond in 10 feet of water so it has a negligible effect on water temperatures. I don't see how it could keep water open in an pond situation unless the pond was extremely small.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,541 Likes: 845
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,541 Likes: 845 |
Dwight:
If it's a closed loop system, doesn't it take heat "out" of the pond in the winter, and put it back "in" during the summer?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 697 |
Yes esshup you are correct it takes heat from the pond in the winter and put it in during the summer. Somewhere on the forum they crunched the numbers and it will have very little effect on the pond temp.
"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson 34ac natural lake
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388 |
As noted above, pond loops really have very little affect on the pond. The additional loop and making sure there are lots of spacers in the loops has made all the difference in how our geo runs. It's is comfortable and even with single digit temperatures, it ran beautifully. We have a Honeywell thermostat that shows when your heat strips kick on--we changed ours out to one last year and highly recommend one. Thus far this year, the geo is running absolutely great. Dwight, all your costs was right in line with ours and I'm figuring a 5 year payback. The only thing is once you get out of warranty, if you need service, the service for a specialized tech is on the high side of things compared to your older system. Oh, well....dot
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
The overnight low last night was -32F and at 11:00AM this morning it is still -20F. The Geo unit ran on the first and second stage most of the night. With a setting of 70F on the thermostat, the actual inside temperature never dropped below 69F. This means that the third electric resistance heating stage may never run. I can't imagine conditions in our locale that could cause the inside temperature to drop to 67.5F degrees (the resistance heating stage set point). I have some understanding of how the system works. I am still amazed that a whole house can be heated in -32F temperatures by 40 degree pond water!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
I'm amazed by this as well Dwight. When we eventually build our home on our property we are definitely going to install geothermal. For us it will be as much about the cooling in the summer as the heating in the winter.
JHAP ~~~~~~~~~~ "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." ...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,975 Likes: 277
Moderator Lunker
|
Moderator Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,975 Likes: 277 |
Thank you, Dwight, The overnight low last night was -32F and at 11:00AM this morning it is still -20F. for helping me enjoy our balmy 9 deg F weather today.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,934 Likes: 2
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,934 Likes: 2 |
I can't imagine conditions in our locale that could cause the inside temperature to drop to 67.5F degrees (the resistance heating stage set point).
How would you rate the home insulation (particularly ceiling/attic) and airtight-ness (new word)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 951 Likes: 39
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 951 Likes: 39 |
I'm curious as we would like to build some day and planned on a geo unit. I was under the impression that a land based unit was more efficient. Did you compare costs and efficiency of pond vs. land based units? If so, how did they compare? Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 396
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 396 |
I see where some of you figured a pay off for the geo thermal in 4 and 5 years and in my mind I try to figure out how it is figured? If in one case the cost totaled out at $17,500. If after the credits you had around $12,000 to spread out over 5 years this would figure out to saving over $2000 per year. I would assume by this the propane cost was extremely high. The convenience of the geo thermal would be extremly nice. I am trying to convert everything over to my Heat pump situation. I know that during cold weather I would be having electic heat as the heat pump could not convert the cold air to heat. Now if my total heating and cooling was about $1800 per year and this is about $150 per month. Could you with geo thermal give me some figures on how much I could realize in geo thermal savings---please.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
JHAP: I'm amazed by this as well Dwight. When we eventually build our home on our property we are definitely going to install geothermal. For us it will be as much about the cooling in the summer as the heating in the winter. We have a 7 month heating season, a 3 month air conditioning season and a month each spring transition and fall transition. Brettski: How would you rate the home insulation (particularly ceiling/attic) and airtight-ness (new word) Our home is approximately 60 percent old construction 40 percent new construction. All the windows and doors are current double pane. The siding is relatively new on average and has taped one inch bead-board between the wall and siding. Rangersedge: I'm curious as we would like to build some day and planned on a geo unit. I was under the impression that a land based unit was more efficient. Did you compare costs and efficiency of pond vs. land based units? If so, how did they compare? Thanks! In our area a pond based system is far superior to a ground system. There are several reasons for the difference. We have ground water flow in our pond that keeps the water temp around the loop constantly refreshed and very stable. Our pond is a pit type pond dug into the ground water rather than an impounded surface water type pond. Our soil below the frost line isn't soil at all, but gravel. When a Geo loop is in the water the transfer surface is 100% while in soil there small gaps and voids in the soil which affects the transfer of heat. Deaner: I see where some of you figured a pay off for the geo thermal in 4 and 5 years and in my mind I try to figure out how it is figured? If in one case the cost totaled out at $17,500. If after the credits you had around $12,000 to spread out over 5 years this would figure out to saving over $2000 per year. I would assume by this the propane cost was extremely high. The convenience of the geo thermal would be extremly nice. I am trying to convert everything over to my Heat pump situation. I know that during cold weather I would be having electic heat as the heat pump could not convert the cold air to heat. Now if my total heating and cooling was about $1800 per year and this is about $150 per month. Could you with geo thermal give me some figures on how much I could realize in geo thermal savings---please. The savings are far greater in more extreme climates like Minnesota. See my comments to JHAP at the beginning of this post. Try this calculator: Geo Savings Calculator
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,541 Likes: 845
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,541 Likes: 845 |
Dwight:
I ran the calculator, and I may be reading the calculator incorrectly. Here's what it said: System Comparisons: 1 Geothermal Heating and Cooling with Hot Water Generator 2 Natural Gas Furnace, 91% eff. / 10 SEER Air Conditioner / Natural Gas Water Heater 3 Natural Gas Furnace, 80% eff. / 10 SEER Air Conditioner / Natural Gas Water Heater
Annual heating, Cooling, and Hot Water Costs: 110 year old, 2300 sq. ft. home South Bend, IN System Heating Cooling Hot Water Totals Avg Monthly 1.......$1,606...$253.....$912....$2,771....$231 2.......$1,977...$643.....$607....$3,227....$269 3.......$2,213...$643.....$607....$3,463....$289
Electric rate: $0.143/kWh Natural Gas Rate: $1.06/ccf
Does this mean that I'd only be saving an average of $38/month over the current system (system 2 in the data)?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388 |
If we get to low single digits, the third stage (heat strips) kick in for about an hour. The difference is with the new thermostat, we KNOW is it on...previously we never could tell without going downstairs.
That is amazing, that you haven't hit third stage; when we thought that, we ended up with quite an eletric bill when we first installed the geo (and after some fine-tuning the problem went away).
I'd be curious what others have experienced with when their heat strips do kick in.
We are definitely still pleased with the geo system inplace.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
Does this mean that I'd only be saving an average of $38/month over the current system (system 2 in the data)? It is all about the extremity of your climate and the cost of energy in your area. Natural gas is cheap compared to heating oil, LPG and electric on a heating unit per $ basis. If you were comparing Geo to oil or LPG heating your numbers would be quite different. Enjoy your natural gas while you can!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
If we get to low single digits, the third stage (heat strips) kick in for about an hour. The difference is with the new thermostat, we KNOW is it on...previously we never could tell without going downstairs.
That is amazing, that you haven't hit third stage; when we thought that, we ended up with quite an eletric bill when we first installed the geo (and after some fine-tuning the problem went away). It probably has something to do with the sizing of your system. How many tons have you?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 388 |
5 tons and five loops in the pond...they figured we'd used 105 hours of heat strips during the two coldest months due to heat loss from the house??? My husband thinks we maybe need a couple of more loops. May be to soon to tell, this is only our second year with geo. It's 18 degress right now and we're running straight off geo (no strips) and i know the strips come on like 1, 2, 3 or 4 at a time.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
OP
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
Ours is a 5 ton with 4 pond loops and 1 electric resistance heat "strip" that never runs, even at -32F What brand and model is your Geo system? How well is your house insulated? I am curious about the large difference in what we are experiencing.
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|