Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Losing it all to a new power line

I hardly know where to start. I want to thank everyone who has e-mailed, PMed, and posted. It takes people like all of you to understand the passion we all feel for our land. Many people I work with can't quite comprehend. They live in homes or condos in the city, and they grew up that way. They hear gunshots in the neighborhood, and they dial 911. We hear gunshots in the neighborhood, and we think -- I hope Charlie got the 40-point buck.

Theo -- as for hair. Saying that I have more hair than Robert Duvall is really cutting it close. I think the difference only depends up how many hours either of us has been away from the clipper.

As Mark mentioned above, there were several local articles about the hearings last Thursday night. I arrived to a pile of newspapers on my desk at work this morning. And, as ACK mentioned, there are groups who can help fight it.

Even as a young man, I mostly knew what fights to pick, and which to walk away from.

I don't believe it is a winnable fight. As long as the population of the mid-Atlantic states continues to surge, infrastructure will win at all costs. The new powerline to cross my property will provide coal-fired electricity from lower-central WV to people in northern New Jersey. I don't like any part of it, I believe there are far better alternatives, but it is what it is.

Fights and delays will only prolong my agony.

All ideas and opinions are greatly appreciated. All I ask is that it not get political, mean, or disrespectful.

Thanks all,
Ken

Ken said: "I don't believe it is a winnable fight."


I disagree. You just have to redefine "winnable."

Getting the most money you can for your property is now a "win" because, as you say, they're going to take the land.

Well said!

Just wanted to add my sympathies and best wishes to what everyone else has said.

I don't know if it's possible but, just maybe there could be a clause that says you get the property back if they don't go through with the power line plan. Stranger things have happened...

All the best!

Al

Ken

Can't offer much in the way of advice other than to take Eric up on his offer to talk. No matter the outcome, I hope it is equitable for all involved.

To try and lighten things up a bit, perhaps you could team up with Duvall. The next generation Butch and Sundance. With enough Hollyweird makeup magic maybe we could have Sunil take on Katherine Ross' part.

Russ

All great comments since my last post.

Sunil -- we are banking on getting the best deal we can get. We are lining up the best assistance we can find.

Al D -- I believe they are currently delaying. But, the current description says that upon ratification of a price, they will give us 10% of the negotiated price for a one year option. Should that option expire, they will renew for one additional year at an additional 10%. They can just keep going. Each lawsuit prolongs the final agreement. In the meantime, we are in limbo.

If I were 10 years younger, this wouldn't be so difficult to accept. Right now, it puts our retirement and life planning into a very strange quandary for at least two or three years. It doesn't make sense for us to continue any the many improvements we've been working on. Sale potential to a new owner is virtually zero at this point. We don't have enough money to buy another farm, keep this one while things are in litigation, and attempt to semi-retire.

I look at my comments, and I think I've gone negative. I know there has to be a positive side. Ideas on how to get past this are greatly welcomed.

Ken

Ken, are you set on a WV retirement? My fiancee and I have been looking at land in VA and the prices have become very reasonable... 30 and 40 acre pieces of property for 1/3 what they were going for 3 years ago. We are working hard on saving to buy one. Not sure what land prices are going for in your area.

Russ -- good idea. We are having a separate Thanksgiving from the kids and grandkids this year (it is the year for their turn in the barrel with the inlaws). Lynda, her aunt, and I, have reservations for Thanksgiving dinner at a different famous historical restaurant not far from Mr. Duvall's restaurant. In the morning, I think I'll call his place and see if they have room for us. Maybe I can make a deal.

Sunil -- do you and family want to join us?

Ken

Ken, I guess one positive would be how quickly a year or two passes these days.

We are going to Nemacolin from Thursday morning until Saturday afternoon which does get us a little closer.

PM me where you are going if not at least for general interest. I was just watching Apocalypse Now last night.

Travis,

We found years ago that there is extremely little significant difference between WV and VA. Taxes maybe a lower here, but gasoline is $0.30 higher per gallon. Real Estate may somewhat less expensive WV, but services are much less. Virginia has strong zoning laws. WV has virtually no zoning laws. The good and bad points really balance out.

Land around here, in the 25 to 50 acre size, goes for anywhere from about $2000 to $15,000 per acre depending on many different factors, and who you know.

We have ruled out going back into Fauquier, Loudoun, or Clark due to taxes and impending growth. Growth, traffic, and taxes drove us out. Because of elder family, the kids, the grand kids, and many extremely wonderful WV/VA community friends, we feel we really want to stay within about 20 miles of Winchester. Since we currently border Frederick county, it is absolutely on the list. We're also looking at parts of Shenandoah and Warren. If we were 20-30 years younger, we'd certainly look at the Northern Neck or even the southwestern part of the state.

Regards,
Ken

It is scary, but each year goes faster and faster.

Faster, or not, I think we need to resurrect the idea of a regional Pond Boss gathering. Whether Nemacolin, Wisp, Timberline, etc., I think that we are finally getting to be a big enough group to make a regional gathering realizable.

Geeze -- I hijacked my own thread!

Ken,

Have you considered the political process? Byrd or Rockefeller may help if you can get to them. Maybe worth a try. I recently had an incident in Texas in which my US Rep. went to bat for me.

Is there a possibility of routing around your land? Do you have environmental issues that would be negatively impacted by a power line? Would wildlife be deprived of range?

I have seen strange things in Texas when it comes to power lines, roads, etc. and powerful property owners. Use the political process if you can.

I wish you the best.
David

Ken, I wish you the best of luck in what ever you do. My dad recently moved to the Northern Neck of VA when he retired from the Feds a couple years ago. If you aren't right on the water land is cheap as are the taxes. Not too much sprawl either. Way too far from any major city. The county my dad lives in only has 22,000 full time residents. We know a couple real estate agents in the Northern Neck area if you do decide to look around that area. I do agree Loudoun, Frederick and Clark Counties are all quite pricey... Sorry you're having to go through this at this time in your life.

Ken, I'm not hearing negative from you; just reality. If you got laid off at work, there is a good chance that you would have to relocate. Many people do and you're not the only one in this boat.

Going and fighting a protracted legal battle can get pricey and, in the end, may not leave you any better off. You and I have already gotten older, and we hope wiser. Well, not always.

As the shock is wearing off, look at this as a business matter. Then, look at it as an opportunity for a fresh beginning.

From a financial standpoint, get rolling and look at other places. For negotiating purposes, figure out what it will cost to replace what you have plus a PITA premium. Envision and quantify building and rebuilding costs. Identify tax problems if you sell for a profit and build that in to your negotiating points.

From their standpoint, land values are lower and it is a great time to start the project or at least the process. However, the line may not be built for quite a while.

I'm sorry to hear you have to leave your dream, to a powerline.
I can totally get in to the feeling(heart pain)

Positive upside.
You are not losing it, but forced to sell, and probabbly to a valueble price, wich puts you in a dream position in a marked(property) that is down for a long time to come.
You can now, use your time left on the land you are leaving,for recreaiational purpeses only,collect experience on wath should be differente, for a easy retiremente balance(management)
On ewery thing, house,garden,pond all the stuff that gets a bit harder to keep ship shape growing older.
Invite the hole family, the ones we like to share oure dreams with, to join in on the opertunetie to build a new dream.
Adjust this dream to age(years to come)in all matters.
Be happy that your healt is fine,your still young (have the power)full of experience, knoledge and spirit.
The money $ is there it's your call not some bank to decide your knew, dream.
So be glad you have the time to spend some time still in the dream you are living, to suck out and enjoy it before the end.
And start looking forward to a new faboules dream to come, you have the all means to create that.
Don't use to much energy to fight a loosing battle, its so easy to get stuck in the gutter, be creative in geting as fitt as possible throu a difficulte time, and save your energy for all the pleasent surprises and yoys to come.

I know all this is easier said than done, and I share your greef

You got that right. I used to laugh at the statement that life goes faster as you get older but not any more. I swear one day it's Monday and the next it's Friday. My wife says it's because when you're 10 years old one year is a tenth of your life. When you're 60 its a 60th of your life.

I do know when I'm 10 years older I would do anything to be the age I am now, so I won't complain about my age now.

Ken, feel your pain, been there. Sold my farm to the regional public utility which could have been a forced sale. If I can help contact me.
Bill

Ken, Man what a bummer. I wish I could offer some words that would help, but I guess I'll just say we will be here for you.

An end of year update on our homestead.



We got another kick the the gut yesterday.

Energy Officials: PATH Project Further Delayed

Yesterday, the power company requested pulling their application in Virginia. They say they will probably refile in Virginia later in 2010. Each time they refile in a state, the courts seem to give them 400 days. Based on all the articles I've read in the last two days, the project is now at least put off until 2015.

It puts us in a really difficult position. We don't want to do any more improvements here, nor put any more money into the place. With this hanging over the land, we couldn't sell if we wanted to anytime in the next couple of years. Retirement planning is really on hold. The power company has gone into hiding. They even took down their website as of yesterday.

Shortly after we found out they wanted to take our land, friends alerted us to very unique 52 acre farm nearby that was about to be sold off in small parcels. It has been legally subdivided into smaller lots, but all parties involved seemed to be in financial trouble. Its a long story, but we are paying the mortgage on the place, with an option to buy it. It has four ponds, and lots of water on it. It also has about a three acre orchard, good fencing, pastures, forest, four barns, and a house that dates back to 1837. Although people lived in the house until about 18 months ago, it is not really inhabitable. Unfortunately, without selling our current place, we can't afford that place, especially with the need to build a house.

So, we are doing a lot of soul searching.

Stay out of the way of eminent domain projects!

Ken

Ken, so sorry to hear about the continued troubles... Things seem to have a way of working out. I surely hope you look back in 10 years and go WOW, things happen for a reason! It's happened to me more than once. Faith and some luck will go a long way. Be strong! I wish you the best in 2010!

Talk about a Catch 22! I echo CJ's comments. I hope everything works out for you sooner rather than later. It's gotta be he.. to be in limbo like this.

Tough situation, Ken. Wishing you the best. Would the improvements you were considering not increase the fair market value that would have to be tendered? Could you keep records of material costs and your labor time involved for the improvements?
Sorry if this has been answered earlier in the thread. I havent read from the beginning of the thread. I will, sthough.

I'm sorry to hear this news Ken. To say that is process is not fair would be a miserable understatement.

Ken, I'm so sorry to read this. I hope things work out
for you and Lynda.

I had forgotten this, but with the latest update to your situation, it came back to me.

My parents house backs up to a small field that seperates them from an offramp on a highway. That highway leads to the San Mateo Bridge, across SF Bay. CalTrans, the highway people, decided that if they created a second offramp where that one is, and built a new road through my parents neighborhood to get traffic off of the highway and over to another highway faster, that it would releive allot of traffic.

CalTrans spent millions on this and when they released the plan, home priced dropped big time in that area. The map showed what housed would be taken for eminent domain, and what ones would back up to the new road. It was a disaster for them, and everyone around them. They fought it, went to all the meetings and vowed not to sell. Of couse, they didn't care. Nobody could sell their house because it wasn't worth anything, anymore.

After a few years, CalTrans abandoned the idea. As soon as they did this, homes went up for sale and sold quickly. There was no threat of the road anymore, and there was no need to disclose something that was no longer going to happen. When my parents sold their home, they got a great price and didn't have to diclose what might have happened with that road going through because it wasn't pending or on the planning books anywhere. If the project is dead, then it's like it never happened.

I'm no lawyer or know anything about your situation. What I know is that my parents and neighbors went from for sure losing their homes from eminent domain to build a new road, to not having to disclose it when selling the house.

If it's not on the books, and the power company has cancelled the job, then the question you need to find out is if you have to disclose something that may never happen? I wouldn't want to take advantage of the buyer of your place by lying to them, or misleading them, so it's up to you to figure out where you are comfortable and what is legal. For this, you might be best off by seeking legal advice.

Another thing to consider when selling property and what to declae is where do you draw the line? You pond is a hazard to small kids. Wild animals are on your land and capable of causing death and injury. Mother nature is always just one storm away from destroying your home or other assets on your land. When you bought the place, none of these things were diclsed to you. If the power line was already on your line, then the possibility of it being added to and things changing was always there. Selling it doesn't change that, and the buyer realizes it when buying the property. Your documents and title will include easments for the power company, so that wil be disclosed. What happens in the future isn't your responsiblity if there isn't anything actually planned. You can't disclose rumors, and what if's.

Eddie