Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain A few good minnows

I have recently been researching the local minnow populations in MN, (I saw a group of 3"-5" fish in a stream I didn't recognize, after hours on the net I think that they are Pearl Dace). I was amazed to find out how many "minnows" there are.
I found a wholesale bait website, http://www.gollonbait.com/baitfish.html, that lists 14 diffrent baitfish. Including fatheads, several chubs, dace and mudminnows. Is there any reason to use another minnow sized fish instead of fatheads or in addition to them?
What are some of the best to put into a SMB or LMB/ bluegill pond?

Fatheads are used universally because they are hardy and very prolific (breed often during the summer). Most other minnows/shiners have a relatively short breeding season and do not produce high numbers of young like fatheads. Other minnows/shiners can be very beneficial in the pond habitat depending on your requirements. But the primary requirement is if they will reproduce in the pond and not get eaten before they repopulate.

thanks Bill,
That's kind of what I suspected, are there any that you have specificaly used? Shiners or chubs? Thanks in advance.

Very few chubs that I am aware of spawn in ponds. Most chubs need specific stream conditions for successful spawning.

Blunnose minnow is very good at reproducing successfully in ponds if you can provide them enough protection from bass predation.

Not much experience with lots of varieties of shiners. I am looking for a good pond spawning shiner besides golden shiner.

I have used spotfin with success; steelcolor & spotfin shiners are crevice spawners. Redfin, common, and emeralds do not spawn in ponds or have very specific spawning requiremnets. Many of the shiners are stream spawners. I have never worked with spotails and they may be riffle spawners.

Steelcolor shiner holds promise.

You may have a local shiner that can spawn well in a pond habitat.

Thanks a bunch, this is the kind of info I love to get from the guys at Pondboss. No where else, on the web or otherwise can I get experienced real life info. Thank you.

I have what I believe to be Emerald Shiners in my pond. They are vegetarian and reach a maximum size of 4". I stocked them two months ago not knowing what to expect.

My 55 adult minnows have already produced several hundred baby minnows.

I have read on this site that Emerald Shiners do not do well in ponds. That has not been my experience. I am really impressed with this species.

Emerald Shiners also live in large lakes and rivers. So I imagine they must have some ability to evade predatory fish. They appear to be fast swimmers.

I will write more about my pond later.

lukifell - Is there any way you can get some closeup pictures of these adults? Lots of "talented", knowledgable and educated people along the southern Lake Erie shoreline and probably other places have tried to get emerald shiners to reproduce in ponds. Your location and conditions may be unique.

If you can send or post a picture (digital or film photo) of these fish, I would really like to see them up close. If they look good, I would like to see a couple specimens for some specific counts and meaurements to verify taxonomic features. I would send you a collection bottle and shipping box.

Another species that I've always wondered about is the Red Shiner (Cyprinella lutrensis). The book "Fishes of Kansas" describes them as generalists with a high reproductive rate and great tolerance to pollution and turbidity. It seems like these would be useful characteristics in a bait or forage fish.

On a different note, Ty, if your lake has water in it now, have you stocked it?

Cody - I admit I have not positively identified my minnows. They could be Brassy Minnows. I have the Audubon Society Guide to Fishes. I will try to examine some of them more closely. It might take some time.

How does one send Minnows through the mail without having them deteriorate ?

There are numerous shiners and minnows that look close to emerald shiners. Separating them can be difficult without a dissection microscope and proper taxonomic keys.

Shipping dead fish. Simple.

1. First you pickle or preserve them by adding live fish to preservative until they are dead,,, usu 2 to 5 min. Acceptable general use preservative is Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol or straight vodka.

2. Let them soak in preservative at least 24hrs. Large fish should have an incision in the belly so preservative can penetrate body cavity.

3. After fish are dead and soaked, drain off liquid, put fish in double zip-loc bags. I often wrap fish in small paper towel soaked in preservative before bagging.

4. Box them with some packing to prevent crushing them and send to recipient.

Cody-

Sorry for the delay. I will be ready to send you some minnows in a day or two. Don't worry about sending a collection bottle. I read your instructions.

I just need to know your mailing address.

Thanks

lukifell - My mailing address is: PO Box 64 Malinta OH 43535.

I will look forward to getting some fish. Do you want me to post the results here, send them email, or send them US post office?

Cody-

I sent the minnows today. Express Mail. You will get them by 3:00 PM tomorrow supposedly. I sent 3 fish. They lost a bit of color in the preservative. But they are intact.

Post the results here.

With USPS Express I will not see it until Thursday morning which is okay. Skin color is not needed when I use a taxonomic key to ID minnows. Hopefully you sent three fish of different sizes or were they different species? Best to have some of this year's young so we can assume they were hatched in the pond. Answers will be Saturday Eve or Sunday. I will be out of town Friday & early Sat.

lukifell - Received fish in Thursday's mail (express takes an extra day to the real small towns). Your 3 medium sized shiners (4.25", 4.5" 4.75") were all golden shiners. Distinguishing features were 13 anal fin rays, small almost vertical terminal mouth, deep bodied, and the presence of the characteristic fleshy keel behind the pelvic fins. Fleshy keel had 1/2 sized scales along the border. No doubt about this fish's identity.

You will find that these shiners will soon grow to over 5" long and those that survive predation will grow up to 8" long; lengths much longer than emerald shiners. I have goldens in my pond to sizes of 10".

Largest typical emerald shiners in Lake Erie was reported by Troutman to be 3.9" and largest emerald shiner reported was at 4.9" from lake Michigan (1961) . Your shiners were up to 4.7" long. Very very rarely will emerald shiners get over 4" long. Also your shiners were wider and deeper bodied than emerald shiners that approach the lengths you sent me.

Golden shiners are not vegetarian and will eat lots of zoplankton, insect larvae and even fish fry when fry are available. I can catch large golden shiners (4"-10") on worms and a small (#10,12, or 14) hook; smaller the hook the smaller the shiner that can be caught. Golden shiners not only swim relatively fast compared to fatheads, but g.shiners will readily jump above the surface or out of a bucket full of water.

What other fish do you have in your pond besides these shiners?. Where did you get the original ones you stocked?

Thanks Cody !

I am a bit surprised. The picture in my Audubon Field Guide shows a large Golden Shiner perhaps 8 inches long. I never considered what a small Golden Shiner might look like. I got these fish from a small pond about 60' by 60'. I examined this pond closely and did not see any fish much larger than 4 or 5 inches. I suppose it is possible the larger shiners were either hiding near the bottom...or perhaps the big ones were more attractive to predators and thus fewer in number. Rumor has it these fish were originally obtained many years ago from the Connecticut River.

The reason I thought these fish were vegetarian is because I never see them eating bugs. I have seen them grab onto a bug and push it around underwater, sort of like how a cat will play with a mouse.

These fish will readily jump out of the water. Sometimes for no apparent reason.

I have 1 or perhaps 2 Rainbow Trout in my pond. There is no way they could eat enough minnows to affect the population.

I have hundreds of young minnows. This years oldest hatchlings, from June, are now 2" long.

I have much to think about now that I know what species I have. I have a few questions.

1. A large Golden Shiner, 10" long. Will such a fish be big enough to eat a grasshopper if it lands in the water ? Or do I still need Bluegill to feed on the larger surface insects ?

2. Try not to laugh too hard at this question. Is it practical to eat Golden Shiners ? For people I mean. Has anyone tried this ?

The shiners are jumping out of the water because they are being chased by a larger fish.
10" g shiners should be able to eat a small grasshopper or cricket, but not the really large 2" long grasshoppers. My large shiners eat 1/4" fish pellets. Add a few (4 to 10) more trout and they will feed on the larger insects.

Have not heard of anyone eating large shiners. I am not sure if they have additional small bones that lie in "flakes" of the meat; sometimes called "boney". One way to find out is to clean and eat one. Let us know what you find out.