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#18039 12/26/03 08:15 PM
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No action on this topic for four months.

Someone has surely came across a hoard of grass shrimp that they want to get rid of by now? ;\)

Does anyone have a good source for crayfish in fairly large quantities and how does one assure they aren't the rusty version that causes problems?

Rosey Reds are just fathead minnows bred to emphasis that certain coloration aren't they?

Jeff


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#18040 12/26/03 09:15 PM
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Ranger,
I can't answer either of your questions but would like to use this thread to ask Bill Cody if he has a source for papershell crawfish he has mentioned. Does anyone know where to purchase papershell crawdads?


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#18041 12/27/03 01:16 PM
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My potential crayfish connection did not pan out this year. I spoke to Scott Trava, and he seems very confident that he can supply crayfish in April or May of '04. I'm giving that a shot for sure. Scott recommended a water hardness test to make sure the new crayfish would molt.

These are not the "rusticus" strain of crayfish.


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#18042 12/29/03 04:02 PM
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I finally found a source for freshwater shrimp (scuds). "Gammarus Lacustris" happens to be a common pond shrimp and accounts for a large portion of trout forage. This won't help me up here but this guy sounds interesting. Contact: Barry Thoele at Live Aqua. Home 218-894-3638, work 888-660-3436, e-mail liveaqua@brainerd.net. He is in Staples, MN.
Wood

#18043 12/29/03 07:41 PM
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There is a supplier of papershell crayfish (Orconectes immunis) in NW Ohio. I am not sure of the restrictions for shipping them out of state. I will contact this person and check on the shipping status. Papershell crayfish does not occur naturally in NC nor is it reported to occur there in my (1985) records. Papershell does occur in IL. I do not condone importing species into an area where it does not already exist. There are no doubt other crayfish species that could do the same job in NC ponds.


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#18044 01/02/04 04:37 PM
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Wood: I emailed him earlier this week and haven't heard back so I tried to call. I probably messed up but it asked for my 4 digit PIN each time I dialed that 888 number for the scuds. Any advice? Thanks! Jeff


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#18045 01/02/04 06:11 PM
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Jeff, sorry for the dead end. I originally found his name listed as a supplier of Gammarus for seahorse culture. His name also came up in a discussion regarding wetlands rehabilitation and also as the owner of Lincoln baits in Staples. I will dig a little deeper and post results, regards, John.

#18046 01/02/04 06:19 PM
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Thanks Bill
I'll check and see if I can legally bring them into NC.
Ric


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#18047 01/02/04 09:16 PM
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FYI: Gammarus fasciatus is available from Wildlife Nurseries,Inc, POB 2724, Oshkosh WI 54903-272. 920-231-3780. They do not ship until around May when their ponds open up. Price is $75.00 for 200; including shipping. I have bought Gammarus from them, product is good.
G.fasciatus gets up to 14mm long whereas G.lacustris gets up to 22mm long. Other than that they are quite similar in overall appearence.

The place in Ohio said will ship papershell crayfish but they said overnight shipping gets expensive. So far they have only shipped them within Ohio. Regardless of how bad one wants them as fish food, I would not import them into states where they do not already exist. There are other crayfish species that will serve your purpose. Even collecting local crayfish from your local streams or marshlands would be a much better alternative.


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#18048 01/06/04 07:56 PM
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A source of freshwater shrimp/scuds is M&W Bait Shop at Sioux Falls, SD 605-338-6515. They will ship. These shrimp come from shallow lakes in NE South Dakota. Dave Willis could probably tell what species these are.


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#18049 01/06/04 08:03 PM
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I don't know about other states but my state requires a permit to import crustaceans although if you do it you would probably get a way with it. Just something to keep in mind.


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#18050 01/07/04 01:59 PM
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Norm sort of put me "on the spot," as I really don't know much about invertebrates. However, I have a book, so I can find enough info to be dangerous.

I'd guess that the scuds that Norm mentioned as being available are probably Gammarus lacustris. The invert book I am reading says that they reach a maximum of 22 mm (nearly an inch), and they are "found in a wide variety of habitats over the northern half of the United States."

Earlier, Bill mentioned Gammarus fasciatus. My book says they reach a maximum of 14 mm, and are "common in the upper Mississippi drainage, the Great Lakes drainages, and the Atlantic coastal plain down to NC."

These appear to be the two mostly widely distributed scuds in the Gammarus genus. However, there also is a widely distributed scud known as Hyalella azteca. They only reach 8 mm, but are "widely distributed and common." So, I doubt that I could tell these from a small (young) Gammarus without a microscope and a book.

One of our local baitfish dealers, Mark Froning at Dakota Wholesale Bait (605-693-4422), said he gets quite a few of the scuds in his nets, but only in the spring. He said he could collect and sell them most easily at that time.

The problems with transporting fish and invertebrates outside their native range is probably an issue that should be considered, as indicated by Cecil. There are no easy answers to this dilemma, and sport fisheries biologists really struggle with the issue right now. Guess I'll let it go at that!!

Dave


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#18051 01/07/04 10:27 PM
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Sorry to put you on the spot, Dave. I sure don't know what species they are. I think that Mark Froning gets most of his minnows and scuds from M & W Bait. I certainly agree that moving inverts around posses tremendous threats to environment and maybe should not be considered.


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#18052 01/08/04 01:50 PM
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Thanks for the scud and crawfish sources.

I've read that Illinois has both the scuds and papershell crawfish. I was thinking I'd postpone getting any until next year; but remembered a shallow, fishless pond at the edge of one of our cattle pastures that might be a good site for them.

Is there a website where one could confirm the indigenous species to an area and the type of habitat they prefer?


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#18053 01/08/04 04:35 PM
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I'm currently attempting exactly what you (Rangersedge) describe in a shallow fishless 0.7 acre pond. Would also like to find information on scud reproduction, pH, DO, T preferences, etc. Have not been able to find this information.

#18054 01/08/04 05:02 PM
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Not real heavy reading but covers the basics.
scuds more scuds

This book looks helpful

#18055 01/15/04 11:20 PM
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Not sure if this helps but these sites claim to sell freshwater shrimp. www.fattigfish.com (glass shrimp) and www.coloradofisheries.com (scuds)

#18056 01/18/04 04:49 PM
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Thanks Corey!
Ric


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#18057 01/22/04 01:17 PM
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Everyone: Thanks for the sources and info!

Wood: You didn't give me a bum lead after all. I heard from Barry at Live Aqua via email just a few minutes ago. He indicated in his email (received from liveaqua@brainerd.net) that they handle several thousand pounds of gammarus lacustris each year; but they are currently looking for additional sources. He indicated he would put me on a list after I receive DNR clearance to bring them to Illinois.

Jeff


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#18058 04/01/04 06:51 PM
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I know this is an old thread but I thought I would share this. I read on a local fishing forum that some people were collecting shrimp for bait at a lake near my house. I checked with the fish and game regarding re-locating some to my pond and they said take all you want. I went there last weekend and drilled a hole in the ice in a shallow weed bed and when I brought the auger back up, it flooded the ice surface with thousands of them. Gammarus lacustris almost an inch long. I scooped them up and put them in a bucket and put the auger back down the same hole and hoisted up another load. I came home with a 5 gallon bucket, 6" thick on the bottom. I have kept a bunch in a trough that are breeding. I want to see if I can raise some for re-planting in my pond later. I'll post results for anyone interested. Wood

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Wood,
Please do!


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#18060 04/15/04 08:33 AM
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Just a reminder, this is a perfect time of year to get fresh water shrimp (scuds). Page 3 has the names of various sources. In general, all that you have to do is call any state fisheries biologist and they can tell you where to get them easily.


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#18061 05/09/04 11:58 AM
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Ric, I have had them five weeks now, they are in a cooler, probably two hundred or so. Most of the females have moulted and are paired up again for breeding. Still no babies to be seen. I feed them trout pellets, and have been putting pond weeds in as well. Apparently they like very hard water and require calcium to re-grow their shells. Any ideas on a source for calcium to add? They also need to cling and do not like smooth surfaces, it seems they get stressed out and will not breed, go figure. I did put a few hundred coupled pairs in the pond to see if they will take. I have read a lot about trout diet and didn't realize how important scuds were. They are responsible for the red pigment in the skin, and the pink color of the meat. Trout pellets contain an artificial additive to replecate this color. If I had the chance again, I would stock scuds first and allow time for them to properly establish.

#18062 05/17/04 09:23 PM
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I'm looking at purchasing some scuds and glass shrimp. I'm planning to put them in a couple fishless ponds with hopes that they will multiply and I can relocate them to my forage ponds when completed and perfected. Can anyone tell me if they will likely do well in small, fairly shallow pond in southern Illinois? Thanks in advance! \:\)

http://www.fattigfish.com/glshr.htm


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#18063 02/02/05 10:37 PM
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I haven't gotten any yet. How is it working out for those of you who did?


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