Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Erosion control

Since renovating the pond last year, I am still having a problem getting grass started growing in two sandy swales that run to the pond. Last week I dragged out a lot of the soil that washed into the pond, reseeded and watered it daily to get grass growing. The grass seed just germinated and was about 1/4" tall when the rains came.

Last night I had about 5/8" rain in <20 minutes and I checked those areas this morning. All the dirt that I pulled out of the pond and more is back in the pond. The areas that I need to get established are about 30' x 60' and 10' x 40'. The washed out areas aren't that big, but that's the size of the parts in the swales that are bare and need covering. Each swale is approximately 40' wide and each one will accumulate water that doesn't soak into the sandy soil from about an acre and a half.

What can I use to slow down the running water until the grass gets established, and is Rye still a good choice this late in the year? I'd really like to get something that I could leave in place and will allow grass to grow up thru it. Or, is there a better choice of plants to put in these areas?

have you thought of hydroseeding?

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160402&fpart=1

Hey esshup,
The straw mat erosion blankets would do the job on the periphery, but not so good on the channel. Quite frankly, as long as there is washouts thru that channel, I don't know of anything that will hold seed/soil in place in that area of focused runoff. Short of riprap or rocks, the consensus winds up being getting the periphery well established, then using a silt fence to divert the water away from the channel and to the established areas while you work on establishing vegetation in the newly isolated channel zone.
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We have a similar runoff situation. We elected to cut a narrow, shallow trench, line it with heavy geotextile fabric, and filled it with oversized river rock. As time went on, some soil and grass seed got in between the rocks and grew....looks natural. We like it.

Staking a line of straw bales perpendicular to the channel at regular intervals will slow the flow of water such that soil is not displaced. The velocity of the water must be decreased, or the soil must be held in place. Those are the two choices.

Thanks guys. Good suggestions, and now I've got a direction to go. Just got to spend a little time getting it done.

Thanks again!

Starting grass in pure sand is double tough. Sand is really nothing more than ground up rocks with none of the soil nutrients to support plant life. Once the soil is gone, the sand then washes into the pond.

To slow it down, try the hay bales that Rah recommends.

I personally prefer brush piles tossed in it to hold back or at least slow down the water.

I unrolled round hay bales to stop erosion. It does the job but be prepared to deal with all the weed seeds that sprout from what ever was in the hay field.

Esshup,

I would concur with placing bales perpendicular to slow the water flow. The rye should be good to go yet this year as well. Judging from your pictures there appears to be a flatter area before it drops into the pond. I would place a bale directly upstream from the flattest area and then again down where the slope drops into the pond. Concentrate on getting this area started, maybe even add some topsoil if you have some. If you can get the flattest portion started well then you can follow-up and finish the remainder once it's established. Good luck.

Bryan

what about a couple pallets of sod? it would cost more but would be faster. you could get a couple pallets to put away from the pond and lay it as close as you feel like spending and then use the hay bales between the sod and the pond. the combination might slow the water down long enough to let some seed establish near the pond.

i tried to seed some grass in areas in my yard. by the time i bought seed, sprinklers, my time, and paid the higher water bill i would have been better off to just sod it. when we had the driveway widened last year, i just bought one pallet of centipede for $75 and used it on the disturbed area of dirt next to the new concrete. within 2 weeks it was rooted and is still the best looking grass in the yard.

esshup, i realize alot of folks here vote for hay bails, but be careful w/ that. i put several hay bails in perpendicular to flow in a couple spots draining into my pond just after renovation. when the rains came, the flows brought alot of sediment which built up behind the bails. after the bails became saturated and full of sand they were nearly impossible to move. they ended up causing much bigger wash outs to the sides and i lost quite a bit of dirt into my sediment pond. granted the areas i put hay had a lot more water than what yer pic looks like it would have.........just a word of caution. water is powerful stuff when blocked up.

edited.....i knew i had some pics somewhere, maybe not applicable to yer situation, but a good word of caution for anyone dumb enough to use haybails where i did......

hard to see but the area i refer to is in upper right corner of first pic...it was so nice and neat after grading, small little tributary creek w/ hay to slow water down (second pic is a blow up of upper right corner)





then the rains came. this was the creek above the first set of hay bails



the hay caused a blow out down below, this is what resulted.....

If you slow down water full of sediment, the sediment drops out. If it runs into the pond, guess where the sediment ends up. You can handle it in the swale, or as reduced depth in your pond.

I should have my trailer back next week (loaned it along with the 2-up atv). My buddy needed a trailer to take his bike and GF to Sturgis.

I was going to place bales of hay all the way across the swale with a small gap between them, with a second set of bales a couple of inches behind the first set of bales. I figure 2 or 3 lines like that in each swale should slow down the water (hopefully!) and allow me to get some grass started. With this dry weather, I need to irrigate the swales now.

thats all well and good provided you CAN slow the water down in a swale, otherwise bad things happen..that was my point...

Got it - If you want to dig a deep spot in a stream, line up rocks upstream of where you want the hole. The water rushing over the rock dam will dig the hole for you.

thats a good one RAH, kind of counterintuitive, but thats exactly how my hay bail experiment went wrong...........hopefully esshup, you'll be able to control yer volume of water better than i did...

Perhaps staking the last (and most impenetrable" set of straw bails at the pond edge, or just in the pond, would result in most of the digging in the pond, rather than the swale?

Lots of good ideas.
It can be hard to get the wash out under control in the begining. But over a period of time with some work and money you can get everything healed up.

Just picked up 44 bales of straw from the local auction:


Who needs a truck?

It rained 1/2" while I was at the auction, and there still was water running into the pond from the swale when I arrived home. If the weather co-operates tomorrow morning I'll re-arrange some dirt and stake out the bales.

With me pumping 24 hr/day into the pond, and with the 1/2" of rain, the pond level raised 1" from yesterday. During the past dry spell that we had pumping 24 hr/day didn't raise the level a bit.