Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Small Mouth Bass in Texas

Has anyone had any luck stocking SMB in Texas? Here in Central Texas I know Lake Travis has a healthy population and one of the creeks here have them. I caught one out of the creek that went a little over 4lbs once. I wonder if SMB would do well in a pond? How large and how deep would it need to be? How far South could you stock them?

Others will chime in, I think they do fine, they just will not spawn

After that article in Pond Boss, I am wondering how well they would do for me. I might one day give it a whirl.
Did you see I am from Texas?

Brian,

What did the article say?

Brandon -- our TX SMB conversations often come back to the fact that the smallies do well in Lake Meredith -- a little cooler than the heart of TX? Southern pondmeisters commonly report problems with reproduction or at least survival to adulthood for smallmouth bass.

Brandon, IMO temperature will not be an issue. I have SMB healthy and reproducing in Phoenix, Arizona. My main concern would be their forage (they need other than BG only, unless you get the SMB ahead of the BG in size-tricky), habitat (rocks needed to spawn, music and candles optional), and competition (LMB will outcompete unless you plan for it). Water quality is more of an issue than temperature, but mine survive, eat, and spawn with water temps in the mid-high 90's and months of air temp above 110. I had 20 adults in a .15 acre pond - and countless YOY. Aeration would be critical IMO.

Do you have a pond now? If you're trying to put into a current fishery it will be very different than if you're starting from scratch. Both can be done - and I think more people in TX could have great SMB fisheries if they planned for it.

Aaron

We have a new lake in S.Texas that hasn't begun to fill. The area around the damn will be approx 35-40 ft and should flood approx 75-100 acres. We haven't begun to stock yet. Being in S.Texas, heat maybe an issue but with the depth it may be possible.

The other place is on a piece of property my wife and I are looking at purchasing. It currently doesn't have a pond but the spring fed draw makes it ideal to damn up. The creek bed is rock and gravel with several large bolders throughout the bottom. I believe that the depth could range from 12-15 ft at the damn and have some pockets closer to 20ft. The Spring should provide an ample flow of cold water into the pond. I got to thinking that it maybe nice to create a SMB fishery vs. LMB. Ofcourse all of this depends on getting the property bought.

Brandon, IMO SMB would work well in both places. My pond is 6' deep - in the middle of Arizona. It can't get any hotter unless it's a 4' pond in Death Valley, CA.

IMO the cool water issue has as much to do with the fact that LMB don't do well in cool water, thus allowing SMB to thrive, as it does that SMB like cool water. They like warm water just fine - at least mine do. I'm entirely confident you can have a great SMB pond in Texas.

If you want a great mixed SMB/LMB pond it will provide more challenges, but in a 100 acre lake it should be absolutely no problem. In smaller LMB/BG ponds the SMB just get squished out on both sides. The prey gets too big, and the other predator gets too big because it eats the bigger prey. In a bigger pond, more room, more forage, and can have more diversity.

p.s. - I've got 15 adult 1-2lb SMB that have spent the last 2 years enjoying my pond, reproducing, and doing high flying acrobatics when I caught them... and they're going bye-bye tomorrow...

Follow-up question...

Where do you get SMB? And when would you stock them?

I got mine from Hartley Fish Farm in Kansas.
http://www.hartleyfishfarmsinc.com/

When? Depends on lots of things. Are you talking the 100 acre or the smaller pond? To me it would depend on goal and pond size completely. I stocked mine in a small pond, so I put adult forage in at the same time the 4-6" SMB's went in. You can't do that effectively in a 100 acre pond.

If your goals are SMB only in the small pond (or big pond), then I'd focus on getting the forage base built year one, and then stock SMB a year or so later - just like in an LMB pond. If you want mixed pond, personally I'd do SMB before LMB - and let them become adults before LMB went in. You'll have a better shot at this long term in the 100 acre than a <5 acre.

Not trying to dodge the question, but there are a lot of variables that would go into it. I'm ignoring other issues here like habitat and water quality. Forage is discussed really well on the other active post on SMB. If I understood the goals better I could give a little clearer advice. Keys are a) good forage base, but not one that will outrun and outgrow the SMB, and b) ensuring the SMB have their niche and can get established.

That's because you are a SMB Demigod

Going bye bye?!?!?!?!

Do they need a loving home? I heard of some nutcase in Lincoln, NE whose willing to knit his SMB sweaters....seriously.

AaronM - How did they get them to you? Did they ship them?

Brandon - The article that Brian referrred to was probably my article in Mar April 2009 Pond Boss mag. I discussed the myths of temperature requirements of SMB. If you don't subscribe to PBoss mag, you should begin your subscription with the Mar-Apr issue. All total there will be 4 or 5 articles about growing SMB in ponds.
From my studies it is not so much warm temperatures that hinder SMB it is the competitiveness of LMB. IMO Put SMB in a pond without LMB and they will to well even in TX. Give smallies proper spawning habitat (May-June Poss mag) with some good food items, no LMB and you will get at least occassional spawns even in TX. In smaller ponds it is LMB or other larger predators that hinder SMB more than anything else.

As Aaron mentions if you put SMB into your planned pond with the spring water and rocky structure, I think you will be well pleased with the results. For forage I would try FHM, golden shiners, crayfish, and probably since you are in TX, maybe some threadfin shad. Part 4 of my article series in PB mag will deal with best forage items and management of SMB. If the SMB do not do well enough for you you can always add LMB 5-10 yrs later. They will then take over the pond and be the dominant predator.

If you use SMB keep us informed how they do in TX. Aaron seems to have no problem with them in the heat of Arizona.

I think I am going to try SMB. Right now I have fatheads and Golden shiners. I am planning on stocking CNBG and RES next month.

Bill,

Will I be ok with BG. I am planning on seining the pond if necesarry to keep up with CNBG spawn.

Chris - HOw big is your pond? IMO seining will not be enough to adequately control the BG unless you are planning on a lot of seining. Prolific fish tend to recruit numbers of young to fill the available space. Thusthe more you remove the better the next spawn becomes. Plus since you are in TX BG spawn multiple times. Why not try this for the first 4-5yrs. Use only male CNBG. Gather your males from another pond or grow your own in cages. This way you get the best of both worlds big BG and SMB. IF yo need a reproducing panfish with the SMB use the RES. If things don't meet your goals after 5-10 yrs add the female BG and LMB if needed. Give the male BG a try I think they will work well for you & your dad with your experience and facilities.

I think seining if you remove enough fish will work, even a good size fish trap would work. Also, don't give the BG a huge head start on the smallies that you might do with the LMB. Stock the BG and smallies together or even give the smallies a slight headstart. Depending on the size fingerlings of each you stock. If you do stock the BG before the smallies, consider stocking larger SMB fingerlings than you normally would.

Bill,

The pond is .4 acres. If I seine as well as put heavy fishing pressure on the Female CNBG would that make a difference.

I disagree that SMB do well with BG even with removal of BG. One of the big problems with seining a typical PBoss fish pond is that with so much artificial structure added to ponds they cannot be readly seined - too much junk all over on the bottom. IMO The method of annually removing lots of BG will get "old" after a few years. Removing lots of BG sounds easy but doing it on a regular basis in todays busy society is not real feasable. BG can be real prolific. I have never found a small pond with good SMB and BG together.
Lets hear from pondowners who have SMB and BG. I think it rarely works well, and IMO most of SMB and BG combination potential is theory. We definately need more input and field trials with this fish combination. IMO from my experiences, I would not even try it in my pond unless it was easily drainable or easily renovated. But of course if LMB are added they will eventually solve your BG overpopulation problems.

Chirs - IMO for your small pond, using only male BG will be less work and provide more rewards than the alternative of both sex BG. Which ever way you go, keep us informed. I want you to be the first to prove me wrong and that reproducing BG with SMB will work well providing numbers of BG are managed properly.

I would really like to be able to have some BG to move to another friends stunted bass pond. I will have to make I decision pretty quick. The fish are hopefully coming next month.

Any ideas on stocking rates with only male BG?

Chris - For male only BG the carrying capacity is your limit. I see no reason with the SMB, aeration, and pellet feeding in 0.4 acre why you can't easily have 200 male BG.

Chirs, Moving smaller BG into the stunted bass pond is, IMO, not your best plan for you or that pond. Try removing bass until a better predator : prey BALANCE is achieved. Then bass will grow and BG will become more prevalent. Adjust the numbers comprising the current carrying capacity. The answer is not adding more forage fish.

Chris I have a .4 acre pond I am working on as well. I am doing to SMB, RES, male BG only route with a handful of CC and HSB later down the road. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I am not stocking the fish until next year though. This year is forage fish building only.

Chris, I'll completely echo Cody here. If you're targeting SMB, and have the choice (i.e. they're not in the pond yet) don't go mixed sex BG. Seining will be too much and won't do it well. Even catching would be HARD to keep them down enough. I've watched this for 2 years with 20 SMB - they don't like BG unless they're tiny.

I'll also FULLY agree with Cody on the male only BG pond. And I've heard that if you have tons of mixed sex BG in a .15 acre pond and have to seine and sort out the females it's a lot of work, so it might be better to start with male only BG's. Although less sporty! I think a male only BG, with a few SMB, female LMB, and a couple RES, along with GS and FH sounds like a FANTASTIC pond.

Aaron

What's your take on RES instead of BG? Not nearly as fecund - therefore not much of a threat to overpopulate? What are your impressions? Bill and Dave Willis encourage RES instead of BG for a SMB pond.