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#15652 06/14/06 04:02 PM
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Russ, a friend of mine traps beaver and last year trapped two beaver in a dry stream where there wasn't any water within a mile.


Norm Kopecky
#15653 06/14/06 04:13 PM
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Norm, thankfully the beaver was an overnighter. He was gone by morning. Thats the second year in a row I've had beaver show up. So far, noone has taken up residency.

#15654 07/06/06 05:42 AM
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A couple of updates:

Pond appearance: The pond is currently clear of algae. Yesterday I cleaned up a few small patches along the shore. All the riprap I wanted to place along one shore has been laid down, about 110' total. Transplanted a few bur reed plants from the big pond.

Fish: The BG that are being caught average 5-6". They look to be in good shape. Over the past couple of weeks, I've counted 13 BG nesting sites but have not seen any young. The fatheads are spawning. A walk along the shore shows numerous schools of FH darting about.
Each morning I toss a handful of pellets into the pond and what I thought were FH minnows showing curiosity are actually golden shiners. With an intermittent stream feeding this pond, I suspect my BG/Bass pond may eventually house a mixed bag of species.
Clinging to the riprap and huddled along the shore are hundreds of snails about the size of a pencil eraser. As has been noted on the PB forum and in the magazine, they can be a link to some fish diseases. The recent PB article on pumpkinseed sunfish has me thinking about adding some of these to handle the snails. I welcome all comments on this approach.

Misc fodder: I just received my electric bill for the past two months which corresponds to the timeframe that I started running the compressor on a regular schedule. Running the compressor from 8 pm to 6 am, seven days a week, is costing about $4.00/month ($0.07/kWh)
The dam project I had planned for this week has been pushed back. In a normal summer, the pond would be down 6-8 inches by now but due to the numerous rain storms we've had lately this is not the case. I'm hoping by the end of July or beginning of August, the level will drop enough to allow me to do the work.

#15655 07/06/06 09:00 AM
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Russ :

Thanks for the great report. It sounds like the BG pond is doing well. If those are GShiners they should help a little with BG #s control by eating a few eggs and fry. I to enjoyed Dave's PS to RES comparison. If you can control the tendency of both the BG and PS to overpopulate and stunt you should have an interesting combo of fish. Here is a pic of a BG x PS from Wisc. Fish ID.


















#15656 07/07/06 12:07 AM
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Thanks for the picture Eric. Overall, I'm very satisfied with this little puddle however, I'm very concerned about the snails. As noted in my last post on page one, I did some fishing at a local farmer's pond and all the BG caught were covered with black spots. If the snails are a link in the chain for this disease, I MUST do something before my fish are affected. Hopefully Bill C or Dr. Dave will see this post and offer some advice.

Eric, I'm going to search the PB forum but do you by chance have any papers/pictures that talk about/show the sexing of pumpkinseed sunfish. I'm also going to call the fella from the hatchery and see if he can offer any advice. He got a kick out of my initial request for all male BG so he should really like this one.

On a side note. I stopped by a local water testing lab today and inquired about testing a sample from the pond. I asked for 5 tests, D.O., pH, hardness, alkalinity, turbidity. He quoted a price of $185. I don't know if that price is good or not but I'm going to check my catalogs and perhaps buy a testing kit.

#15657 07/07/06 06:32 AM
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Russ, in Texas, we send water samples to Texas A & M. It is a lot cheaper than $185; maybe $20.00. Check with County Health Dept, County Agent, etc.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
#15658 07/07/06 09:05 AM
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Russ

I also send my pond water samples to the County Agent and it costs me $28.

Frank


Book Owner and Magazine Subscriber 3 acre pond central GA
#15659 07/07/06 09:07 AM
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Russ :

Here is a link to pics. I will check some more but so far 4 good sources have failed to describe the visual difference between male and female PS. I have not gone through the pics so I caution that these pics are sometimes labeled wrong (people tend to group LES in with PS).

http://images.google.com/images?as_q=Lep...&imgsafe=active
















#15660 07/07/06 02:20 PM
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DD1, Frank

A normal well water (drinking water) test performed by the local municipality water testing lab costs $30 but they only test for bacteria and fecal coliform. I don't know if the county health department does water testing related to ponds. I placed a call to a bud who works there but he was out of the office. Hopefully I'll talk to him this weekend and find out whether or not the county does the testing.

Eric,
Thanks for the link. What I'm hoping to find is similar material/pictures like Bill C, Bruce and Cecil provided in their PB bluegill articles.

#15661 07/07/06 02:54 PM
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Russ, I was thinking about contacting them for a referral to some Agency that does the testing.

#15662 07/07/06 09:23 PM
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Russ sorry I missed your other question here :

New York
Cornell Nutrient Analysis Laboratories
804 Bradfield Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
(607) 255-4540
www.css.cornell.edu/soiltest
Soil test cost: $15.
Includes: pH, lime requirement, organic matter, P, K, Ca, Mg, Al, Fe, Mn and Zn. (Fertilizer and amendment recommendations based on analysis results included for New York state growers only.) B included for additional $5. Soluble salts included for $2 (free for home gardeners).
To submit samples: Samples submitted in our own soil bags, which can be purchased through our office or through your regional extension offices. They are $15 and include the analysis fee.
Common regional problems: None to report.

No info yet on pic comparison of male/female PS. Only source to note a difference is Peterson Field Guide which says "... dusky chainlike bars on side of young and adult female.... "
















#15663 07/08/06 07:01 AM
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Eric,

Thanks for the info on Cornell. I'll call them next week and quiz them about soil sampling and how it correlates to my pond water. Sure would be the cheaper route to take.

#15664 07/08/06 07:39 AM
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This is the only pic I have found saying male/female PS. Link below. If PS follow the usual lepomis variation pattern then the info on the pic is backwards as it has the top one the male. I bet the more colorful one on bottom is the male.

http://www.americanfishes.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=9&cart=25031


















#15665 07/08/06 10:18 PM
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Russ , for $185 you should be able to buy the testing kits to do your tests. There are some old posts on this forum about which kits are acceptable. I think Papond approved test kits from pet shops.

It looks like someone (Dr Willis or me?) is going to have to do an article describing male and female pumpkinseeds for PBoss mag. You have to watch out for pictures in books especially if they are not photos of fresh fish. Joe does a very good job of fish art, but he is usually working with one fish from one habitat. Lots of variation in color does occur as we all know. Sometimes things get skewed in artist's renderings. Bottom fish in Ewest's plate above is the male. The book (Fishes OF Central United States) with Joe Tomelleri's prints has the male, female labeled correct. I think the male PS also has a slightly larger portion of the black gill flap than the female. The red spot is also slightly more prominent in the male. Problem is, I do not have a good source for mature larger sized PS near me. The female PS that I have seen are slightly more colorful than that female depicted in the above plate.


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#15666 07/09/06 05:22 AM
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Eric, thank you for the link and the pictures. Bill C concurs with your statement about being cautious of photos, especially the one shown.

Bill, I did a search for PaPond and found the link where he mentions aquarium test kits.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000039#000006 .

I found an additional post where PaPond mentions that he uses CHEMetrics test kits. I'll have to do some more searching later this evening.

Bill/Eric, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you think the snails that inhabit my pond could lead to problems for the BG.

#15667 07/09/06 07:03 AM
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Bill and Russ I agree. That is why I provided the Google list on PS first as it has a lot of pics for comparison. But they aren't always right. I don't really trust the drawings/paintings for as Bill says it is one perspective. They ,in addition to being local, are also subject to the eye of the artist . They are great to look at and good work just not the ideal fish ID source. I suggest that folks look at the Wisc. Fish ID site http://wiscfish.org as those are top notch wet pictures by someone who is very good at fish with good equipment. If you want to compare the fish in Wisc. with those from a diverse area then look at http://www.nativefish.org/Gallery/ and Google to compare. There are other sources but they do not attempt to show M/F nor describe the differences. Only source left is a text search . I do think I can find you some text on PS and snails. Bill will have a much better idea of your snails but posting a pic would help as there are many different ones and all do not host parasites and they do help a lot with pond clean up.
















#15668 07/09/06 09:51 AM
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Eric, Snails should not be a big problem if you keep the fish eating birds out of your pond. To prevent the parasites of the snail-fish-bird pathway you need to interrupt one of the steps in the parasite's life cycle.


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#15669 07/09/06 10:05 AM
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Russ -- Bill just gave the only advice that I could give. When you don't like the parasites (black spot, yellow grub), you have to try to break the cycle. My experience is that high incidence of these parasites seems to occur in "hot spots." Those spots are probably places with more of the fish-eating birds (herons, kingfishers), and seem to just be a natural phenomenon. In the past, we just lived with it. Now, we're trying to play around with the cycle, which is why we stocked pumpkinseeds. I initially didn't really expect much effect, given that we weren't controlling the birds. However, at least in the short term, I have observed far fewer yellow grubs in the yellow perch after we stocked the pumpkinseeds. However, the grubs are certainly not gone.

As for sexing the pumpkinseeds, I just haven't seen much information on that compared with bluegills. Could it have anything to do with the fact that we can produce 10 and 11 inch bluegills, but an 8-inch pumpkinseed is a whopper??


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
#15670 07/09/06 10:36 PM
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Bill/Dave,

I do have kingfishers and herons in the area but have not noticed them at this pond, yet. The ironic twist to this is the layout of the pond. Most of the pond has steep banks which would limit access to herons. The one shoreline, were the kids would do most of the fishing from, has the shallow area (for safety). This area happens to be where I laid the riprap which seems to be a magnet for the snails and crayfish. It would also offer a perfect setting for a wading bird like the heron \:\(

I'm going to grab a few snails and take them to work where we've got a couple of magnifer scopes. Maybe I'll get lucky and identify the species.

#15671 07/11/06 02:18 PM
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Mailed the soil sample to Cornell today. Hope to see the results in 10 days or so. Cost $10 plus $3 shipping.

The county health department gave me a couple of numbers for local labs and suggested I call them for any pond water testing. I did happen to find an extensive water sample report that I did on my drinking water well when I first built the house. For the well water, the alkalinity was 206, hardness 44, turbidity .25 and pH 8.52. Any thoughts on the correlation between the well water sample and the pond water?? Maybe I'll just have the pond sampled for comparison.

#15672 07/22/06 10:00 AM
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Soil nutrient analysis results from Cornell:

pH 8
Phosphorus (#/A) 1 very low
Potassium (#/A) 30 low
Magnesium (#/A) 750 high
Calcium (#/A) 28940 high
Aluminum (#/A) 73
Iron (#/A) 16
Manganese (#/A) 91
Zinc (#/A) 0.6
Nitrate (#/A) 10
Organic Matter (%) 1

This analysis was preformed on the soils that were excavated from the pond last year. To establish a pasture w/ legumes they recommend Nitrogen 20-40(#/A) , Phosphate 80(#/A) and Potash 85(#/A) for the first year. The second and third year applications for Nitrogen and Potash are the same but phosphate drops to 45 (#/A).

#15673 07/22/06 07:56 PM
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Russ do you get a plankton bloom (green color)? Was the analysis done for a pond or crops? The High ,Low & Averages are different for them (at least in the ones we get done).
















#15674 07/24/06 07:23 AM
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Eric,

The focus of the soil analysis was for crops, not ponds. On the day I picked up the soil test kit, the ag rep was not in the office. There was no place on the data sheet, that I saw, related to ponds. I questioned the gal, that gave me the test kit, about water testing and her recommendation was to call the NYSDEC. The next time I'm in town I'm going to swing by Cornell and hopefully the ag rep will be in the office.

On the question of plankton bloom I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know. Being a pond neophyte with the only exposure to blooms coming from words/pictures here on PB, I cannot look at my pond and say yes or no to a bloom. Since spring, I've been taking periodic secchi disk readings. Initial measurements were 39". Yesterday I measured 20". In early spring, the pond had a nice blue-green color that even my neighbors commented on. After a normal spring rain, that color changed overnight to what I have today. The water appears dark but when you pull a sample jar, it looks crystal clear. I recently installed a different compressor to experiment with, the pond is clear of FA, I see minnows/BG/LMB swimming about and the one resident muskrat appears happy. After pulling the water sample the other day and saw how clear it was, I started thinking about getting a microscope to see what is actually in the water. Bloom is as much color as content right??

#15675 07/24/06 09:01 AM
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Russ I would think that if your visibility decreased from 39 to 20 and it was not due to turbidity from rain, change in aeration or other source then that indicates an increased plankton bloom. That would be a normal summer occurrence. Aeration while good for water quality can through circulation reduce plankton bloom and its visibility at the surface. The fact that you saw blue green color is another indication of a bloom. Visual color is an indication of plankton bloom usually noticed when the color increases or appears in spring/summer. Unless one has a sterilized pond there is plankton present and it is only a question of which types , density and color (if visible with the eye) even in winter.

On the forms we turn in for soil tests it has a blank to fill in for why you want the test i.e.. , corn , cotton ,trees, ponds mgt. etc. I am not a good enough chemist to translate your test results to a pond application. It is very good data to have as a baseline and PaPond, Bill , Dave, Bob or others may be able to extrapolate it to your pond. If they don't I can probably find some info. A good source would be your extension agent for ponds.
















#15676 07/24/06 10:27 AM
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Eric,

On the subject of rain, aeration and turbidity let me state this. In my area, at least in my opinion, rainfall has not been a problem. The pond has dropped about 6 inches which I feel is normal for summer time. We did get a good drenching this past saturday.
My aeration experiment involves a compressor rated for double the output of the one I was using. I can run both diffusers simultaneously now and the water really "boils". I'm looking to reduce compressor runtime while maintaining proper mixing. Not knowing if the increase in aeration is causing any turbidity problems, I took a jar sample as noted above. Its been 24 hours and nothing has settled in the jar so far.

I hope to have some more information on the soil analysis tomorrow. I'll post anything new.

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