Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Thuja Green Giant

So, what's the skinny with this evergreen?
As I'm bumping thru search engines, researching conifers that grow fast and are suitable for screens, I run into the Thuja Green Giant. The growth stat's are incredible, to the tune of 5 feet per year. US Natl Arboretum
I already have Norway Spruce on my "A" list, but this is v interesting. Any practical experience with Thuja?

Ahhh, I see it's a hybrid arborvitae. I don't have any experience with BIG arborvitae; I always liked the smaller (10-20ft) ones I have been around. I find them attractive and not very trashy (seldom have branches break off).

They're a nice tree, but don't believe the hype about 5' of growth per year. Mine have grown far slower, maybe the soil isn't ideal for the tree. They are supposed to be more deer resistant than other thujas, but mine aren't in a place where deer would bother them so I can't verify that. They can get big depending on site, upwards of 60' tall and 20' wide. If you want native trees only, they won't work ... they're a hybrid from Denmark. Unless you buy large trees they won't take on that conical shape for a few years, and because they are taller and narrower more trees have to be planted for a screen than some other selections. Anyways they are nice trees, pest & disease resistant, look good, etc.

One of the fastest conifer screens you can get is Leland Cypress, but they sometimes have bagworm problems and they aren't native either.

I would imagine that 'green giant' would grow about the same rate as a norway spruce. Norway spruce are in their own right, incredible growers. I have some 'green giants' like Eric, and I am not impressed. Will they grow fast and look good in the future. I'm sure they will. But 5ft!!!!!!
Probably in a nursery with ample care. Such numbers can only lead to disappointment.

A positive going for 'green giant' is the lovely foliage and its great smell. Crush some of its foliage and sniff the days away. Couldn't think of doing anything better, other then.., fishing, of course.

Agreed with Lance, 5' in one growing season is pretty amazing for any tree. I can't think of a tree off hand that grows faster than hybrid poplar, but they would be lucky to do 5' in one season after being established.

Usually when you see a nursery or mail order catalog state "up to of growth per year!" you can expect half that after the first growing season. To meet thier claims the soil would have to be ideal for the species, moisture level just right, perfect climate, and the right type and amount of fertilizer used. And the stars would have to align properly too Anyways green giants should make an attractive & troublefree hedge, just not as fast as advertised.

...sorta like the over-enthusiastic realtor that lists a secluded property with a pristine 4 ac pond...that accurately measures 2 ac.
I believe that I am over the Thuja alarm; thanks for the feedback. Quite frankly, I would really like to plant Austrian Pines in this area. The needle drop is a non-issue in the area. At my principal residence, I have grown them next to Norway Spruce in full sun and they have dwarfed them in this first 9 years. Unfortunately, tho, in the area that I want to create this "screen" there is existing hardwood timber that, even after clearing the smaller trees, will provide alot of shade thru alot of the day. Austrian require full sun, from what I read. At least Norway Spruce are a little more shade tolerant. I need a conifer, fast grower, shade tolerant, fairly wide growth, and not a deer magnet. Not too much to ask.
(ps; Eric...thanks for the idea, but Leyland Cypress won't make it in the heart of zone 5...from what I read :rolleyes: ...thx)

Is white pine an option? If staggered they would form a nice screen. Only negative I can think of is that deer sometimes bother them until they get around 10' tall.

Also, a negative for whitepine is some diseases that can effect it. Not sure if that is a concern or not where you live. Our windbreak at home consists of such trees as austrian pines, norway spruces, white pines, blue spruces, and douglas firs that were planted in the 70's.

White pine had a problem surviving in West iowa at first until they were firmly established. Now the white pine is the tallest in our windbreak. The austrian pines grew fast at first, but now some are getting blight and dying. One has already died. I don't think austrian pine is recommended anymore for the same reasons that scotch pine isn't recommended anymore. They are too prone to various blights. Air circulation is the key to help prevent such diseases. But why give your time to a prone plant when there are others that are less pressed by disease.

Some other pines to look into:

Pitlolly pine-alot of hype surrounds this one, hopefully it pans out, Hybrid between pitch x loblolly

Red pine-not sure how it'll do where your at. In my climate it fizzles out

Ponderosa Pine-grows fine here, but sometimes listed that doesn't like humid east

Southwestern white pine-a white pine from the rockies

Eastern White Pine is a native tree and lands in the "fastest grower" category in the NRCS field guides. The moment I mentioned their application, tho, the State biologist and the NRCS agent both nixed it without proper deer protection (and I don't want to deal with fencing or netting). They both leaned to Norway Spruce, particularly because of the shading.
Lance, when I get some time, I'll look into your other pine ideas...thx.

Actually the Thuja Green Giant is a cross between an American tree : Western Red Cedar and a Japanese arborvita. Not sure who did it.

The Leyland Cypress is from totally native Norht America trees, a cross between Alaska Cedar and Monterry Cypress. However the cross was done in England.

........and the western red cedar has been recorded to do well in the east with adequate moisture.
I plan to buy some w.red cedars and some more green giants in the future. Buy a few of everything and have some fun.

Scotjute, agreed on the thuja plicata/standishii cross. The hybrid originated in Denmark 40 years ago so alot of people consider it to be from there.

Leland's are a hybrid of North American trees, but the parents aren't native to Illinois where Brettski is. I'm a little picky about planting native only at my little farm a few miles from the house.

Lance, do you have any pitlolly's? I have one large pine on my land that could be. Several people have tried to ID it and they are split 50/50 over whether it's a loblolly or pitch. Makes me wonder if it's a pitlolly. The other pines on my land are definitely Virginia, Loblolly, Shortleaf, and Eastern White ... just this one is a challenge to ID.

No pitlollies, yet. But I have ordered 100 for this spring.

"Deer Protection" - Now that is saying a mouthful! I am curious what others have done about this #1 Killer of White Pines. The deer around here are enough to turn a non-hunter into a poacher! Personally I have bought 100 ft rolls of welding wire and hand cut them into 1 ft round fences. Not only expensive but EXTREMELY time consuming. It seems to be working aside from the occasional knock over and light snack, but is anyone else using anything easier and cheaper? Plus in a 2-3 years the little white pines will start to out grow their cages. Some Neighbors have told me they had bought some nice 36 in. Pines in the past only to have them destroyed by bucks. I just recently ran some electric (white tape) electric fencing around a new plot of trees to see how it does. It is unsightly, but I don't mind it for a few years since I don't live on the property yet.

I've read & read about repellants but have not been sold on the idea, plus it gets pretty costly as well when you have several hundred trees...

The old farmer next to me tells me there is NO new growth or little saplings in the forest anymore due to the deer. I have hunters on standby for the fall season.....

Hi Chickenwarrior, beautiful pond you have there. I grew up just south of Louisville and am in IT too, small world.

The deer will largely quit bothering white pines once they get "head height" or larger. They are hardly touching my unprotected seedling white pines, but they are raping the recently planted tulip poplars. I am a deer hunter, but hunting is not very effective in protecting seedlings. You won't get all the deer. (Nor would you want to) Sprays and scents do work for a while, but you would have to continue applying after rains. Alot of people think bars of soap and human hair are effective. But the only way to really protect seedlings long term (without frequent maintenance) is to fence them off. I'm not protecting mine and am letting the deer decide which ones live

The deer (aka hooved rats) are pretty much reproducing out of control in the Southeast. It's mainly because their natural predators (cougar and grey wolves) are extirpated from this region.

i found a quick easy and inexpensive way to keep deer from eating shrubs/trees. using simple garden stakes and fishing line. apparently when the deer hit something (line) that they cannot see, it spooks them. i was battling with the deer eating my rhododendrons and this fixed it. one day i saw one of the lines broken, and a deer print in the soil, but no plants eaten.
i just strung three lines (top, middle, and bottom) from one stake to another.
good luck!

fujimato i think you have a great idea, I had mentioned it in another post to keep herons out of a small backyard pond. I think any animal would be spooked if they could feel something touching them and not see it!

I planted 20 of them for a sreen 3 years ago. And they have not grown 3 feet in 3 years.

cellog...you just made me LOL. Thanks for posting that one.

I wish the deer would scare from fishing line where I plant trees, sure would make it cheaper to plant them. Bears are definitely not scared of anything!

I can't imagine having bears as a problem. We have feral hogs and thieves.

I did find that electric fence won't deter deer. Unlike a cow, when they touch it, they lunge forward. I've tied a lot of it back together.

Hogs and THIEVES?

Believe it or not, putting your electric fence wire about 8 inches to a foot off the ground is better for scaring off deer. You want to shock them on the nose as they are browing on grass and forbs near your trees. They'll jump over the "fence" several times UNTIL the day they shock their nose. Then, they'll stay clear for quite a while.

Yep Mike, I've had both.

Dave
Good news. The paper said the new jail make over will include locks on the cells.