Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Tracer dye's, milk, etc

Hi all - I've seen a few references on the "leaking pond" topics to using dye's, milk, etc to follow the flow. question - is it only useful spotting the leak on the outside of the pond or has anyone used it to pinpoint the source of the leak inside the pond?

for application, do you pour a 1/2 cup in individual places and watch, or scatter it to see where it gathers? not sure how thick these dyes might be.

Since I'm testing a new round of bentonite packing, the 1st check will be wherever we settle as far as water line. right now losing 2-3" per day. but it could be fun to experiment with the dye too...

thanks !

How big is the pond?
I do not know haw to find the leak on the inside of a pond if it is not something obvious. Please keep us posted to how it is going.

I have used dye several times and it is an imperfect deal. Lots of repetition needed. You used bentonite for a reason so I would check there. On one, we used a weighted paint strainer bag with Easter egg dye when we had eliminated places close to the surface. It took a lot of repetition but we finally found a bottom seep.

Hi Mike - it's just under 1/4 acre. 3 tiers, around 3', 7', 10'.

we packed bentonite in the deepest section in '07 and it held. Fall of '08 stripped out all the river rock, tilled, packed with bentonite on the other tiers.

once it gets shallow enough on the top level, I'll try to find some seep. (I like your idea Dave, get it on the bottom, hope for no wind and observe) Then same on the next level. Hopefully it will level off before that !

The loss is amazingly consistent. Exposing 8-9" of bank (3/1 slope) each day the past 4 days.

Calling for another week or two of rain starting Friday so I'll be back to full pool soon

keep s posted

so the highest tier is less than knee deep now and I spent some time experimenting this weekend. not sure what to make of the results.

when I walk on it there are great clouds of fine clay that billow out. Within about 5 minutes it's mostly settled...except in my foot prints. It stay cloudy there much longer.

I couldn't see where the clouds were being drawn in any one direction...they just spread out and then settle, but much quicker than I'd expect for this fine of clay.

it's extremely sludgy to walk in...sinking 4+ inches. Maybe from the bentonite expansion? Or not being packed well enough?

Drop rate doesn't seem to have changed yet, but it snowed & iced up Sunday at the edges so it's hard to tell.

TYT-LNZ

Is this the first time you have checked the level since you put in bentonite?

correct, 1st time we've made it to full pool (going over the spillway) since packing the bentonite.

then the rains stop and I get to measure the drop rate

thx-
Brad

Brad
don't forget to keep us posted.

Using canned milk and a plastic tube to put it exactly where I want it, I just found my leak, or one of them.

After I fill my pond, I have been loosing about an inch to an inch and a half of water a day even though there is lots of water flowing into the pond over the clay slope behind. There is also a small spring which seems to have sufficient pressure to raise water through a tube to above the highest level of my pond. Loosing this much water in the winter when so much is coming in has completely mystified me. We are having a very dry winter and before it begins raining again, I decided to speed up the water loss by draining the pond down an additional 10 inches to where the springs brought the water up to at the end of last summer. Last night it came up 2 inches from that low level. I am guessing that sort of pinpoints the trouble area as being a leak in the sides at about that depth, and not in the bottom which still has about 2 to 3 feet of water.

Examining the bank I noticed there was a few small holes just below or just above the water line the size of a pencil or nail and a couple inches below the water line just where the dam joins the natural clay loam soil along one side of the pond, there was one hole the size of a pencil and a 2 inch crack a couple inches beneath it. I wondered if any of them might be a leak. I got about 3 feet of clear plastic tube that is about 1/4 inch across with 1/8 inch opening and then I took a small mouthful of canned milk. With a bit of practice I was able to dribble milk from the tube directly on top of every underwater spot that looked like it might be a leak. The 2 inch crack has a strong current running in there. It must be going underground after that and down the slope as there is no sign of it on the other side of the dam. Knowing the location of a leak is a huge relief, as knowing where a repair is needed is probably most of the problem.

As the pond seems to be gaining or maintaining it's level right now, even though it is also clearly leaking below the water line, I am thinking there may be other leaks located above the present low water line, as the pond gained 2 inches over top of the leak I just found.

Or could the difference in water pressure on top of the leak I found account for a different rate of loss through the same leak?

Well I have never heard of the canned milk before.
What ever works.

Now that you have found the leaks do you have a plan, for stoping the leaks.

This could be a job for bentonite.

The evaporated canned milk tastes good and doesn't turn your lips a shocking color. Using my mouth to blow the milk through a thin tube is really handy as the secret to finding a specific leak seems to be managing to just put a couple drops of milk in the water near the leak.

Otherwise the general clouding in the water makes it hard to see where the milk is going.

Tying the tube to a long stick and inserting something to make the opening narrow enough to control the outflow is also helpful.

And in the process of finding the location of another leak, I made another discovery. This is a bit gross, but when you wander around holding a small mouthful of canned milk in your mouth for about 5 minutes it gets mixed with saliva, and when you squirt it through the tube over a leak the saliva keeps the milk in a slimy cohesive unit that stays separate from the water, and goes into a leaks hole in one long white string. No clouding and general dispersion at all.

Otto, you are a brave man to ask what my plan is to fix my leak. Of course it involves my aforementioned trusty baseball bat.

I have found a source of bentonite and I will be using it to try and plug these leaks. The second one is a hole the size of my little finger.

I was thinking of draining the pond and keeping it drained for a week or two so it drys out a bit. Then I was thinking of using a sledge hammer to pond a baseball bat into the hole as if it was a stake, and then filling this hole with bentonite and a plug made of local clay pounded in on top. Does that sound like it might work? If it doesn't, when things dry out at the end of next summer I could always get an excavator in to repack the clay in that area.

I think there must be some sort of equation between inflow and water pressure and the rate of flow through a leak because it's possible to fill the pond and in heavy rain it has been completely full and overflowing.

What I am not sure of is if it is normal for the water level to sit at an inch or two above a leak if there is sufficient water coming in, and if it is some combination of increasing water pressure and increased flow through the leak that at some point causes the water to level off, though not always right at the same level as the leak, or do I need to go out with another mouthful of canned milk and search for another leak right at the exact place the water stops coming up?

Littlestfish

The way you work I would keep on with the milk and when you find a leak teach it a lesson with your bat and hammer.