Forums36
Topics40,944
Posts557,782
Members18,481
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
10 members (Groundhog7, Sunil, gehajake, CentexSaj, Augie, catscratch, wps456, teehjaeh57, Shorthose, Tinylake),
895
guests, and
239
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
Lunker
|
OP
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29 |
My co-worker (Mark) has a pond that is just shy of 1 acre and is over 20 years old. It had a relatively featureless bottom and was full of 3 to 4" bullheads. The pond was originally stocked with BG, LMB, and CC. The water had been muddy and catching gamefish was nearly impossible.
His solution? Mark caught a dozen flathead catfish from a local river and put them in the pond in June of 2003. The fish ranged from 4 to 12 pounds. Within months the bullhead population was extremely low and he stocked some BG (3 to4"). That winter he sunk three large trees in the pond for structure. Then in the Spring of 2004 he added LMB (4 to 6") and crappie (4 to 6").
Fast forward to Fall of 2004. The BG population was very good with large fish (7 to 10"), the LMB were in the 8 to 10" range, and the crappie were in the 7 to 9" range. He had only caught a handfull of bullheads and there were all over 8" long.
In 2005 he was catching monster BG and 12" crappie, and most of the bass were in the 2 pound range.
I don't know the exact numbers of fish he stocked, but they were well below the Iowa DNR's reccomended numbers. There were probably some BG and LMB still in the pond before he put the flathead catfish in, but I think the overpopulated bullheads were competing for forage and keeping the pond too muddy for the sight feeding gamefish. He found one flathead that was dead after the ice went out in 2005 that was over 15 pounds.
Perhaps not the best way to renovate a fish population, but flatheads certainly worked for Mark's pond!
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,966 Likes: 276
Moderator Lunker
|
Moderator Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,966 Likes: 276 |
Is he planning on leaving the Flatheads in, or removing them? Once up to speed (and numbers), the LMB might well be able to control a reduced number of Bullheads. OTOH, the Crappie make it a little more complicated.
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
Lunker
|
OP
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29 |
He plans to leave them in, but I also know how much he likes to eat a big flatty. So I am guessing the population of flatheads is down to a handful, unless in the unlikely event that they spawned.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,261
Ambassador Lunker
|
Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,261 |
this is one of the reasons i absolutely love this forum.
great post mr. iowanate.
GSF are people too!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265 |
I am glad it worked for him. I would not add Flathead to a pond. North American Journal of Fisheries Management Article: pp. 198–202 Gape:Body Size Relationship of Flathead Catfish Joe E. Slaughter IVa,,1 and Brad Jacobsonb a) Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Wildlife Resources Division, 2065 U.S. Highway 278 SE, Social Circle, Georgia 30025, USA b) Arizona Game and Fish Department, Region IV, 9140 East 28th Street, Yuma, Arizona 85365, USA Abstract. The flathead catfish Pylodictis olivaris is a highly piscivorous ictalurid native to central North America whose range has been extended throughout much of the United States. With this range expansion, many populations of native fishes have experienced declines in the number of individuals due to direct predation by flathead catfish. Previous evidence suggests that flathead catfish are opportunistic feeders and may be the least gape limited of North American freshwater piscivores. To better understand the size of prey vulnerable to flathead catfish, we measured gape dimensions for individuals of various sizes to determine the maximum size prey a flathead catfish can kill based on its gape limitations. Our results show the relationship of total length to horizontal and vertical gape and the relationship of flathead catfish total length to the total lengths of ingestible-sized prey of different body shapes. Furthermore, comparisons of the body depth of three common fish species to the gape dimensions showed that no size of largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides, bluegill Lepomis macrochirus, or gizzard shad Dorosoma cepedianum would preclude predation by flathead catfish. Our results support the assumption that the flathead catfish is one of the least gape-limited piscivores. Received: January 31, 2006; Accepted: May 4, 2007; Published Online: February 11, 2008 DOI: 10.1577/M06-033.1 North American Journal of Fisheries Management 2008;28:198–202 Not me - I have seen the results. A friend kept a 10 acre BG study pond for fisheries science teaching and research. After a few years his students reported back that their seining was resulting in fewer and fewer BG. So they drew down the lake and seined it. They were amazed to find few BG and about 12 large FH catfish from 50 to 10 lbs. The neighbor was raising his FH cats in my friends pond.
Last edited by ewest; 11/13/08 10:07 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,740 Likes: 293
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,740 Likes: 293 |
I wonder how many of the Spring '04 gamefish stockers got eaten by the flatheads.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
Lunker
|
OP
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29 |
I would agree that stocking flathead catfish isn't the best idea for many ponds for stunted fish control. But the fact that he was probably harvesting his flatheads out after a few years probably helped with the long term benefits of the BG, LMB, and crappie. And being as though bullheads are one of the favorite foods for flatties (and least desirable fish in Mark's pond) I would suspect that the bullheads became the major flathead food source for at least a few years.
I would have to agree with the flathead's huge mouth gape though. Using 10" suckers for bait in Iowa are no match for just a 15 pound flathead.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,740 Likes: 293
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,740 Likes: 293 |
No matter what, it is a means to an end, and if you go in knowing the details, then you can plan.
Last edited by Sunil; 11/16/08 09:32 AM. Reason: What is a "ends to a means?"
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,712 Likes: 3 |
No matter what, it is an ends to a means, and if you go in knowing the details, then you can plan. Oh, so true. I probably wouldn't have chosen flatheads, but if they got the bullheads under control, they were worth the effort. The solution, unfortunately then becomes the problem -- how to get the flatheads out. I do believe that catfish -- channel cats -- have a lot to do with the success of my pond. They just have to be kept under control. Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265 |
I am a firm believer in the concept of informed choice. That is why all the posts to links and studies - so we can learn and make informed choices. George accuses me of using the fire hose method rather than just giving my 2 cents. If you know the risks and rewards then do what you think best. If it works then as the old saying goes - if you can do it ,it ain't bragging. If it does not work then we can always come back here and whine and complain ( that is encouraged) because as we all know - if you haven't killed a few thousand fish then you can't be a fish nut.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,086
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,086 |
I subscribe Some days you get the dog,and some days he gets you.Every dog has his day,and sometimes he has two!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29
Lunker
|
OP
Lunker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 29 |
I agree with the crappie perhaps becoming a problem. I have seen many ponds that were less than 3 acres that had stunted crappie that seem to overrun the pond. Then again, a few ponds had good numbers of large crappie...but that isn't the norm here in Iowa.
I tried talking Mark out of putting crappie in his pond, but hopefully he is taking many of them out when they reach eating size.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
I am a firm believer in the concept of informed choice. That is why all the posts to links and studies - so we can learn and make informed choices. George accuses me of using the fire hose method rather than just giving my 2 cents. If you know the risks and rewards then do what you think best. If it works then as the old saying goes - if you can do it ,it ain't bragging. If it does not work then we can always come back here and whine and complain ( that is encouraged) because as we all know - if you haven't killed a few thousand fish then you can't be a fish nut. Eric, Im a slow learner.... If I had paid more attention to trying to drink water from your firehose I wouldn't have killed my fish -but then I wouldn't have killed a few thousand fish and became a fish nut...
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
JHAP ~~~~~~~~~~ "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." ...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,050 Likes: 277
Moderator Lunker
|
Moderator Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,050 Likes: 277 |
George, you are only a Rookie Fish Nut. You have only killed them once. I could tell you lots of ways to say "Well RATS. I did it again.".
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265 |
George I killed a load of 3-5 inch CNBG before I even got the bill for them. It happens !
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
George, you are only a Rookie Fish Nut. You have only killed them once. I could tell you lots of ways to say "Well RATS. I did it again.". George I killed a load of 3-5 inch CNBG before I even got the bill for them. It happens ! It's kinda fun starting over ........ AFTER the sick feeling in the GUT goes away ....
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,721
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,721 |
George you just like stocking fish don't you! Just like me and everyone else on the forum.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,490 Likes: 265 |
Truth be known - George just likes to catch big fish he has raised. Lets see - do I know anyone else here like that - LOL.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 39
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 39 |
The flatheads will be easier to corral than the crappie problem you'll have in the future. Crappies spawn like a big mouthed bluegill. They spawn earlier, thus, their young get a jump on everything else.
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|