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Hello all, I have a 1.5 acre pond 19 feet max depth. It was completed last summer and is about 4-5 feet shy of full. I want to stock it with FHM, RES, YP, and SMB. I was wondering if you could give me some advise. I'm thinking 10 lbs of FHM and 150 RES now. Then 100 YP this fall followed by 50 SMB next fall. I have read some of the posts on here but have not been able to nail down the stocking numbers for my size pond. I would be interested to know what you would consider ideal and what you would consider the minimum (cost is a concern).
Also from what I have been able to find, SMB are very expensive. What would be the risk on stocking them from the wild? I have a river close by that has alot of nice smallmouth and I really enjoy fishing for them. You can usually catch your limit on any given day (5 with a 12" size limit). I was thinking of just stocking them throughout the summer next year in the 12-14" size range. I know that this is not recommended, but I was just wanting to weigh the risk versus cost. Thanks!

Chuck

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Chuck, what is your preferred emphasis species from the RES/YP/SMB? If I knew more about managing this combo, that might make a difference.

My thoughts, going with small, bought fingerlings:
OPTIMUM: 400 RES, 300 YP, 75 SMB (same schedule you gave)
MINIMUM: 200 RES, 200 YP, 50 SMB (same schedule)

I see two main risks to using larger wild SMB:
1) Not having properly sized forage or forage they are used to eating at the time of stocking.
2) Disease and parasite introduction.

Cecil may have a good idea of the risks of 2) in Indiana. 1) could be partly allayed by waiting until the RES and YP have spawned, and the offspring are suitably sized. The wild SMB will be unlikely to be living on small YP and RES, and I'm not sure if it can be predicted how well they would do in the pond.

Have you put in spawning structure for the YP or SMB? YP spawning helpers are very easy to add from shore in the early Spring before you want them to spawn. SMB beds (if they need to be added) would take more preparation,; probably best to work in warmer water.


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If you do end up getting SMB from the wild, the best chance of success (not addressing any parasite issues) would be to get them from a lake or pond as opposed to a river or stream.


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Theo,
Thanks for the advise. My prefered emphasis species would be the SMB for the sport, but on the other hand I really like to eat YP. I have an assortment of structure that I have not added yet. I have some pine, cedar, and locust trees cut. I also have some larger limestone rock to border the smallmouth beds. I still need to get the gravel. I help build this pond and I put a shelf along on side that is about 280 feet long that ranges in depth from 4 to 7 feet deep. I was planning on placing the structure and beds along this shelf.
What would be the risk of stocking at the lower rate this year and then follow by stocking more the following year? Say 200 RES now, 200 YP this fall, then 200 more RES, 100 YP, and 75 SMB the following fall?

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 Originally Posted By: CWJ
Theo,
Thanks for the advise. My prefered emphasis species would be the SMB for the sport, but on the other hand I really like to eat YP. I have an assortment of structure that I have not added yet. I have some pine, cedar, and locust trees cut. I also have some larger limestone rock to border the smallmouth beds. I still need to get the gravel. I help build this pond and I put a shelf along on side that is about 280 feet long that ranges in depth from 4 to 7 feet deep. I was planning on placing the structure and beds along this shelf.
What would be the risk of stocking at the lower rate this year and then follow by stocking more the following year? Say 200 RES now, 200 YP this fall, then 200 more RES, 100 YP, and 75 SMB the following fall?


The only thing I don't like about your SMB bedding shelf palns is that the pond is already full (I spent 2-3 months working in the dry last year on mine and it's hard enough then). But that's just a given condition.

The only risk I can think of (other than losing your patience) is that this year's YP might be big enough to endanger next year's stockers. Dr. Perca (Bill Cody), our YP expert, wanted me to use that same exact delay between YP stocking and SMB stocking. Bill felt this risk was minimal, and he should know best.


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Wild SMB are very likely to have bass tapeworm which eventually make the adults sterile. Likelihood is based on tapeworm status in the wild fishery fish come from. All wild fish are much more likely to have parasites (internal & external) than domestic pond raised fish that tend to have less exposure or interaction with other wild fish.

Success or survival rate of supplimentally stocked fish is dependant on size of stockers, forage fish density and food diversity of receiving water, size and density of resident fish esp predators in the community and amount of weed cover, the species stocked and their behavior. Manmade structure usually has little survial benefit for newly stocked fingerling fish when "normal" or predators are common. If most resident predators are pellet trained and imprinted then survival of fingerling stockers is always improved.

Lower stocking densites than agency or "standard" recommended numbers will usually result in initial faster growth of stocked fish. However the first spawns of each different specie could be skewed toward higher unbalanced survival / recruitment due mostly to inadequate predation pressure by the proper sized predator on the YOY population. Adjustments of fish numbers after the first couple of spawns are more likely needed when too low or too many stockers are added.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/14/08 08:53 PM.

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Thanks for all the info guys! I think you've talked me out of stocking wild SMB. Do you know of anywhere around me that I can get SMB fingerlings? I found Jones Fish hatchery in Cinci lists them, but was just wondering if there was any other places that were good sources for SMB.
Do you think that 10 lbs of FHM will be good if I go with the Optimum stocking numbers that Theo suggests, or should I increase that number as well?

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I've got 10 lbs of FHM in a new 1/2 acre pond, accompanied by 24 adult RES, right now. They are producing an amazing amount of babies. But I think maybe I'd go 20 pounds for 1.5 acres.

BTW, I forgot to repeat this advice earlier - anytime stocking costs seem high, just compare them to the cost of building the pond. And DLYWKHMTPC. (Mine does)


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Well I finally started stocking my pond. I added 4000 FHM (16# I think) this past weekend, and I'm going after 400 RES this Saturday. Since I'm so late, I don't know whether to try and stock the YP now or wait untill next spring/summer to give the FHM a chance to spawn.

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YP would probably hit the FHM heavy before they could spawn next year (not the case with the RES). I would wait until next year - Fall stocking - for the YP. By the time the FHM get much spawning going on, it will likely be to warm for good perch transfer.


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 Originally Posted By: CWJ
Thanks for all the info guys! I think you've talked me out of stocking wild SMB. Do you know of anywhere around me that I can get SMB fingerlings? I found Jones Fish hatchery in Cinci lists them, but was just wondering if there was any other places that were good sources for SMB.

FWIW my SMB fingerlings came from Jones. Cody knows at least 2-3 other places in Ohio that have them usually, but I'm not sure if they would/could ship out of state.


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Theo, does Jones ship ups for smaller orders?


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Yes, although I think whether they UPS or direct deliver depends on planned fish truck routing. I got FHM (Spring) and YP/GC (Fall) off the truck this year, but Gambusia (Spring) and SMB (Fall) were UPS'd.

Free delivery either way in OH, IN, KY, & Southern MI for orders over $200.


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Gotcha. Thanks for the heads up, Theo.


-Chris
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Thanks Theo, Jones is within an hour of my house so thats probably where i'll go. Most other places I've called cannot sell them to you if you live in Indiana. Maybe Jones has a special license. I did call Zetts in WV and they said they can ship to Indiana, but I kinda like picking up the fish myself at the hatchery. Zetts is calling there YP "Seminole Striped" and claim its a different strain, not sure wheter they are different or if that is just a name they use to sell better.

Chuck

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 Quote:
Maybe Jones has a special license.

Most likely they are big enough to handle the expense of destructive testing to prove they are VHS-free, which will let them ship interstate. Smaller places are hard put to right off the number of fish that must be destroyed to satisfy the authorities that they are VHS-free.

IIRC Cecil said it used to be 60 fish (of each species to be shipped interstate) once a year, but that the number and frequency have been increased. It is very hard for a small fish operation to sell interstate in the Midwest now.


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CWJ,

Got any pictures of the pond? I live in NE Hamilton County. Built my 2.5 acre pond two years ago. I too considered SMB but was concerned about their survival because of Indiana pond temperatures in the Summer. They are much more sustainable in rivers due to lower temps. This has been my understanding. I would be interested in hearing periodic updates to your success.

The following is fish farmer/supplier out of Russiaville that initially stocked my pond. Abe Rayl is fair, honest, and will most likely be a little less expensive than Jones (I have used them both). Keep me posted.

American Pond & Lake Management
Russiaville, IN 46979
(765) 883-5718



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Is there a place on the site explaining the fish type abbreviations??
Thanks

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That original protoype has been expanded in the Archives.


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Added the 400 RES this weekend. I had to break up about a half inch of ice to get a place to let the bag temper. I let them set 20 to 30 min before turning them loose (water felt the same temperature by hand). There were still quite a few of them lingering in the shallows after another 20 minutes. They eventually started moving to deeper water. I probably lost about a dozen. That was pretty nerve racking. I'm not sure if I should have let them sit in the bag longer or shorter.
Blaine,
I have some pictures, but they are not downloaded onto my computer yet. I will get some posted as soon as I can. My pond will be about 18 feet deep when full. I hope that I have success with the SMB/YP/RES strategy. Some others on here are trying this strategy that live in the same temperature zones.I guess time will tell. Thanks for the info on the supplier.

Chuck


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