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Theo Gallus #100690 10/29/07 11:07 AM
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Theo, I'm obsessed with Bruce's obsession. I keep thinking that if he keeps at it, he will eventually develop a true-breeding large strain of BG. Not only that, but when all the fish in the mix are large, there's an ever increasing possibility of suddenly hitting the jackpot on a freak huge gene. (Like those guys did with the Atlantic Giant pumpkin). Wouldn't THAT cause a stir on PB? \:D

bobad #100711 10/29/07 04:28 PM
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Here's a link to an excellent related thread by BuckeyeWilly. Good stuff.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=100696#Post100696

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/11/16 10:38 AM.

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bobad,

I'm going to try a slightly different approach next year. I have an extra pond to work with, so instead of taking several mating pairs for my F6 class, I'm going to have one pond with just the three best males and three best females, all age-2.

Both the males and females are currently just 16 months old and measure as follows.

Males,

9.375 inches
9.25 inches
9.125 inches

Females

8.5 inches
8.375 inches
8.375 inches.

As you can probably tell I am beginning to find that the ultimate top-line fish are males. The females are pretty amazing too, but the males seem to have a little edge.




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I'm gonna keep my male Condello bluegills in a cage where they can't spawn and won't mature which slows down their growth. They will be GPCS BG's (Great Pumpkin Condella Strain Bluegills) mutants." \:\)


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Cecil Baird1 #100720 10/29/07 06:26 PM
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Bruce,

Is there any possiblity of interbreeding problems by continuously selectively breeding for fast growth -- ultimately ending up in slower growth?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Cecil Baird1 #100721 10/29/07 06:31 PM
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I think that would be possible if I were keeping all individuals from each year class in the program. However since I always only take the fastest growing fish I believe that I'm keeping any defective genes from entering the population. If I get a defective recessive gene it would show up in 25% of any subsequent generation and would be weeded out at the next selection level when I pick the top 5 percent. Now if I get a defective dominant gene, then I've got a little bigger problem and would need to discard a year class and re-pick different individuals from the previous generation and try again. I'll lose a full year if this happens. It's a pretty good fail-safe system. So far each generation's select fish have grown faster than their previous generation counterparts. As long as this trend continues I don't think I have anything to fear. I have quite a few age-4 and 5 fish from the F-2 and F-3 generation and they still are showing good fitness and growth. You saw some of those fish in the seine this spring.


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Sounds good Bruce. However I think I will develop three lines of bluegills (posted this before), and although I will select for fast growth, I will alternate cross them every generation to keep interbreeding down. Do you have the Fish and Wildlife Fish Hatchery black book first addtion? It explains this although it is used in trout production.

I have your line and mine. I may get some bluegills from a wild source to come up with the third line. (A little scary considering VHS -- maybe I should find a pond source). I have an 800 acre lake a couple of hours from me that is notorious for large bluegills. Not only do they routinely get into the 10 inch range (I mounted one for a customer out of that lake was just a hair under 12 inches), but I put two in my pond years ago and they took to pellets with the feed trained bass. They started out at 8 inches or so and ended up over 11 inches in two more years. After the bass had their fill of the pellets they just kept sucking them in one after another.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/29/07 07:37 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Cecil Baird1 #100758 10/30/07 05:55 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Bruce,

Is there any possiblity of interbreeding problems by continuously selectively breeding for fast growth -- ultimately ending up in slower growth?


The good news about that is it only takes 1 or 2 fish to introduce fresh genetics into a large population. However, I guess you would have to be very careful with introducing strangers, especially in a small group.

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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
bobad,

I'm going to try a slightly different approach next year. I have an extra pond to work with, so instead of taking several mating pairs for my F6 class, I'm going to have one pond with just the three best males and three best females, all age-2.



Thanks for the synopsis Bruce. Those measurements are phenomenal. I can't wait to see next year's statistics!

bobad #100765 10/30/07 09:10 AM
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Bruce why 3 males and 3 females? For others the BG do not pair up - the male has a nest and the females go from nest to nest depositing eggs. Seems like I read that there should be more females (1.5 to 2 females per male).



Last edited by ewest; 10/30/07 03:55 PM.















ewest #100769 10/30/07 09:25 AM
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BG in middle America are pretty straightlaced - it's strictly monogamy for Nebraska 'gills.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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ewest #100772 10/30/07 09:44 AM
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 Originally Posted By: ewest
Bruce why 3 males and 3 females? For others the BG do not pair up - the males has a nest and the females go from nest to nest depositing eggs. Seems like I read that there should be more females (1.5 to 2 females per male).




Funny answer (on my part) to a good question (by ewest).....

The reason is that I just happen to have 3 males and 3 females that stand way out above the other fish in size.

After their initial spawn I'll attempt to move them to another pond with a more traditional mixture of males and females. This will just be a good chance to see if it makes a difference to just go with the top .1%


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Extra-extra-high-grading.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Theo Gallus #100795 10/30/07 04:04 PM
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Bruce you have the potential situation for a good nesting experiment/observation. I have not seen any study which addresses this in such a situation. Watch closely (as I know you will) to see where each male spawns/nests. Very interesting to see if , with the room, they will colony nest with 3 or be solitary nesters. Also if this results in solitary nesting if that trait passes on to the offspring and re-occurs in these individuals the next time they spawn. I sure hope none of them are sneakers or engage in cuckoldry. \:o
















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