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#13221 10/26/05 09:17 PM
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I have news for everybody. Cecil Baird haunts my dreams. Every time I think that I'm doing something special with one of my ponds I'm reminded that Mr. Baird is growing "Brick Trout" or yellow perch the size of big walleyes. \:\) What he's doing over there is unbelievable. I'm sure that there's nothing like that anywhere else in the country.

So I've decided to finally do something about it. I went to Tractor Supply Company and used all of the knowledge I've gleaned from various sources and decided to start a yellow perch project.

I contacted a perch grower in Sutton, NE which is only one hour away from here (thank goodness) and politely explained to him why I wanted him to grade some perch for me. I told him how someone in Indiana was using all female yellow perch and growing monsters. He nodded knowingly and agreed to grade off for me the biggest perch in his tank. From a tank of maybe 5,000 yellow perch he selected 450 of the biggest ones and assured me that a large percentage would end up being female.

From Tractor Supply Company I used a 10% off coupon and purchased a 150 gallon Rubbermaid tank with a 1.25 inch integrated outlet. The college kid was fascinated as I told him that I wanted to dribble water in at 30 gallons/hour but have the water from the bottom of the tank to be the first to exit so I could keep my water as clean as possible. I also designed the tank so that I could drain water with a valve quickly to draw suspended solids out of the tank without letting any fish out.

So far after about two weeks I have yellow perch that are eating readily and some even appear to be getting a little bigger. The well water will come in at a constant 54 degrees all winter and I have added a small aerator. Hopefully this will serve as a redundancy so that if either the hose or the aerator fail that the other will continue to supply enough oxygen so the fish don't perish before I remedy the situation.

My goal is to select off the biggest fish, hopefully that are visibly carrying eggs next spring, or later if necessary and use them to stock my new .15 acre pond that will have the horizontal aeration.










Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13222 10/26/05 10:11 PM
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Bruce,

That's funny. I thought I was the one envying you! I'm still not confident I will grow big bluegills like you. I may have blown it with below optimum growth this summer due to overcrowding.

Are you aware:

"Yellow perch brood stock must be held outdoors in ponds or indoors under conditions
that mimic the normal seasonal changes in temperature and day length, as these changes are
needed to induce normal sexual maturation. Females must be exposed to a "chill period" for
normal yolk deposition and final maturation to occur. The optimum chill period of yellow
perch from northern Minnesota was determined to be 185 days at temperatures of 43EF (6EC)
or lower (Hokanson 1977). Yellow perch from more southern latitudes, however, probably
do not need such a long or cold chill period to complete maturation." (Kolkovski and
Dabrowski 1998).

See Yellow Perch White Paper

http://govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2003/528/5280250.pdf

One plus to raising perch indoors at constant temps which precludes gonadal development may be faster growth and then when you want them to develop eggs you can overwinter them under appropriate conditions.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#13223 10/27/05 07:13 AM
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This might be good news for me because the building these fish are in is only insulated R-4 and is unheated. Last winter the temperature got down to 10 degrees F. for a while. Maybe the temperature of the water will be buffered by the air temperature and I'll get something similar to a normal temp cycle. I also purposely placed the tank next to the window so the fish will experience a daily solar cycle.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13224 10/27/05 07:14 AM
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That is an ingenious (sp?) looking homemade rig, Bruce.

I foresee a possible combination of my daughter's "BG in a 10 gallon aquarium" project and the 100 gallon Rubbermaid trough which will be surplus for the Winter when my heifers finish off their current pasture.

When I tell my wife it was all your idea, she's really gonna hate you. ;\)

What (if anything) are you using for a screen at the drainhole? Please keep us informed of the both the progress of the YP and the status of the do-it-yourself fish Condello-minium.

Cecil:
Would the delayed gonad development be a likely result of constant temperature overwintering in other species (say, BG)?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#13225 10/27/05 07:26 AM
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Theo, The 1.25 inch drainhole was not threaded all the way to the inside so I took a 1 inch connector with a 90 degree bend (elbow?), wrapped some electrical tape around it until I could just wedge it into the inside part of the hole. The opening of the elbow faces down and allowed about a .5 inch gap from the bottom. When I open the drain valve the water comes rushing out (and most of the waste) but the perch can't quite squeeze under and are learning to avoid the area when I clean it.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13226 10/27/05 04:56 PM
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Including the aerator the whole thing cost me about 200 bucks.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13227 10/27/05 05:18 PM
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Curse you, Condello, I've been thinking about this all afternoon - it just got worse after I got home and saw the watering troughs (like in the pictures), PVC pipe (like in the pictures), and hoses with ball valves (like in the pictures) just laying around the farm, hardly even used for more productive purposes (those cows can drink when it rains, right? ;\) ). We've even got an aquarium-sized air pump and airstone laying around somewhere that would probably suffice for a lighter load of fish than you're running.

This could be the Po' Boy answer to the RAS, only open loop instead of recirculating. So take really good notes and tell us what works and what doesn't, please. I'm gonna let you make all the mistakes and take all the credit, but I can definitely see trying one of these in the future.

What kind of trickle/purge regimin are you planning on using?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#13228 10/27/05 05:26 PM
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LOL. \:D I forgot to say that the tank is sitting on a tiny incline of about 3/4 inch in order to allow the more settlable solids to go to the outlet. I'm going to monitor the temps closely to see if I need to increase inflow during the winter to maintain temps of at least 40 degrees. This is why I think YP are the perfect fish because they will grow better than BG in cooler water. I'll purge every time I go to the farm which is between one and three times per week. I also think that once every month at least I will scrub the sides before purging. Right now trickle is 1/2 gpm which really isn't expensive for me....maybe 40 dollars for the winter, and the water is recycled through the drain to the bluegill reproduction pond anyway, so it really isn't wasted.

The best part is that it's fun!


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13229 10/27/05 05:57 PM
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Cool Bruce!


Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner


If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
#13230 10/27/05 07:00 PM
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Bruce wrote: "I have news for everybody. Cecil Baird haunts my dreams."

Bruce, I'm really worried about you. Have you tried to see anybody for help? Surely you know some good medical professionals?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#13231 10/27/05 07:18 PM
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It's a vicious cycle, Sunil. He needs the gas to sleep, but the gas gives him haunting dreams - of Cecil. \:D


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
#13232 10/27/05 07:29 PM
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Theo, you've hit the nail on the head. You are absolutely right.

It's a cry for help as clear as anything!

He can't talk to his family about it, so he makes a statement on a public forum, eloquently disguised in yellow perch based subject matter; blatant, yet tongue-in-cheek.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

#13233 10/27/05 08:09 PM
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Theo, remember when you try setting this up that the open end of the tank goes up (toward the ceiling). I tried it the other way and the water kept running out.

Sunil, if you ever try something like this make sure to remember that the fish like oxygen. I tried directly plumbing the gas from my office to the tank but the fish kept falling out.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13234 10/27/05 09:27 PM
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Bruce :

Very good . I think you won that verbal encounter. \:D Also a great idea but tell me Black Jack will you put a mini Bruce with boggie board in the 150 gal. pond with the YP. How are the male Condello BG doing ? ewest
















#13235 10/28/05 05:12 AM
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Bruce I don't pretend to know anything about raising perch and I really think the setup is cool, but I have a concern about freezing in the lines. Maybe it is the Michigander in me but I would be concerned that the line would possibly freeze between the bottom tee and the lower drain valve. This is the valve you use for cleaning correct? Since it is usually in the off position wouldn't you have water always sitting in this area in 10 degree weather? If this area frooze and the pipe broke wouldn't the tank completely drain?


Its not how well you do something,
Its how well you look doing it!

#13236 10/28/05 05:59 AM
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I have a knack for bothering people without even trying! ;\) You should see WWIII on a taxidermy industry forum I participate in. It's gone to hell due to no moderation whatsoever. That's why I'd hate to see this site go to hell in a handbasket.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#13237 10/28/05 06:34 AM
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Message to fozzybear: (or anybody else)

UH OH!

What do I do????

I think you're right about the line freezing.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13238 10/28/05 06:58 AM
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Bruce,
Maybe if you move the lower valve right next to the tee, there would be enough water movement to keep the line from freezing. Another option would possibly be that heating tape they use in gutters. I think it is very low voltage and made to be used in wet conditions. better source and should benear you I think...
http://doitbest.com/shop/product.asp?msc...1103&sku=549851


Its not how well you do something,
Its how well you look doing it!

#13239 10/28/05 07:12 AM
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Bruce:

How big is the building this is located in? Even though it is only insulated to R4, you could probably keep it above freezing with a small electric heater. If you used a 1500W milkhouse heater (low temperature, high volume air output) you could direct the warm air toward the pipe tree for best effect.

P.S. Thanks for the tip on putting the open end of the trough up. I already figured this out; I tried watering cattle with it the other way and had a calf simultaneously suffocate and die of dehydration underneath the trough trying to drink. :p


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#13240 10/28/05 07:27 AM
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I'm definitely going to check out the other options, i.e. heating tape and heat blower, but would my little electric radiant heaters work? They stand about 28 inches high and they have two vertical heating elements that seem to heat primarily objects they are pointed at. I wonder what kind of electricity costs we're talking here for the winter. If I could make this work then the perch would grow faster as well. The entire building is 42 X 68, but the room that the fish are in is 42 X 15 with an 8.5 foot ceiling.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#13241 10/28/05 07:42 AM
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Bruce, those radiant heaters are nice, with the ceramic elements. If it has a low setting, of say 800 watts, and cycles on and off, looking at a dollar a day. If 1500 watts and runs continuously, $4 a day.
The tape sounds good. May even wrap some around the tank.


#13242 10/28/05 08:08 AM
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Bruce :

Two things we do which may be of interest are to use insulating wrap on pipes and valve covers (styrafome and alum. covers which snap on and off). Second we put timers between the outlet and the radiant heaters so we can control how much they run. Those things have a way of getting to hot if the theromstat sticks. ewest
















#13243 10/28/05 08:47 AM
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My mother has a small goldfish pond and in the winter she uses a small floating water heater to keep it from icing over. I am sure you could use that to keep things at a fairly standard temp. Here is an example at only $12

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9056/cid/2218

Maybe that will help keep you where you want to be temp wise. If you want to make sure the line does not freeze up, the warmer temp due to the heater and allowing for a slow drip ( crack open the hand valve ) will provide flow and should keep the line from freezing over. Where there is flow you generally dont have a freeze.


---------------------------------
1/10 - 1/4 acre pond plus 16 ft deep/ Plus 40 ft by 20 ft by 6 ft deep koi and fathead minnow pond next to it. Upstate NY

#13244 10/28/05 09:13 AM
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Bruce,
Another possible "frost proofing" option:

Plumb your overflow directly into the top of the tank (as you did with the bottom valve assembly)

next;

Place your lower drain valve on the "inside" of the tank, that should keep it from freezing. You will have to roll up your sleeve now to purge the system, and I'll bet it will be cold!

Just a thought

Ed

#13245 10/28/05 09:40 AM
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Brucile, couple of comments/questions:

1) With so many fish in that bucket, will aeration even be enough? Will you need pure oxygen?

2) Will elevating the whole set-up a few feet off the ground help with your freeze-up issues?

3) Are you going to cover the bucket with some mesh or something? I would think you'd have some "gassed" fish trying to jump out.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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