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#129716 08/18/08 05:05 PM
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Hey guys my pond got its first rain \:\) and is about 1 acre at the moment. It should be around 5 acres at full pool. Max depth will be 17ft. About 3 acres of it will be only 4-6ft when full. The rest is the main hole and an area that will be about 8-9ft at full pool. I live north of Wichita Falls, TX on the TX Oklahoma line.

I just like many other PBoss members am willing to go overboard.
I want trophy bass, and am looking for stocking recommendations.
I am going to get some FH in ASAP.

Starting in Oct(ish), Was thinking about stocking:
4000-5000 CNBG and a few RES from 3-6in. About a thousand of each size if I can find them.
25+lbs Golden Shiners (to many?).
FH (again) if needed.

As far as bass, a mix of F1, N, and Fl bass, the ratio im not sure of yet, but about 50/a or about 200-300 6-8in fish total in spring of 09.

Somewhere in the mix, (maybe at the initial stocking) a small amount of Tshad, would 1000 adults be good? If not, I will wait and stock Tshad at a later date with larger numbers.

I know with lots of BG and up to 1000 5-6in BG in the initial stocking. My chances of growing some large BG could go down, because of overpopulation of BG?

I dont have a problem with the reputation of the Gshiner as an egg eater. But if anyone wants to throw a red flag I would be happy to hear why.

Also into the future I plan to stock Tilapia every spring, and will try some rainbow trout at least one winter.

My biggest concern is a drought, and if the pond went down to 2.5a or less im worried about fish kill with BG, Bass, Tshad, Gshiner, RES, and Tilapia all at the same time. I have never obsevred a fish kill in my area, but that does not mean it dosen't happen. Should I stock it as a 5 acre pond, or more like a 3-4 acre because it will most likely not spend much time full?

As for aeration electricity is not an option right now, so only a windmill system is an option, should I decide to get one. I will probably not fertilize unless I have a Pond Boss such as Lusk come and check it first. I do plan on feeding the CNBG with one feeder.

Now is your chance to help me spend some money.


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As far as the Tshad go if you stocked them early in the sping and they had a chance to spawn before the bass went in then 1000 would be enough to establish themselves. I only put 4500 in my 4.5 acre that was bass heavy and they have spawned and now there is a good population of them. I usually stock mine in April. As far as the bass go I would only stock 150-200. I would think the fewer there are the better the growth rates will be. I have heard great things about the F1 bass so I would use more of them. I wouldn't stock golden shiners but thats only because im not that familar with them. The Tshad should be plenty along with bluegill and Tilapia. If you get a feeder then texas hunter is worth the money. You could go heavy on the bluegill when you stock since you will be feeding. With a pomd that size and with that much food you should be catching 3-5 pounders before you know it.

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Hey jakeb,
Wow, what a great accomplishment. Congrats, my man!
I steer clear of most of that stocking recommendation stuff. I'm still a student, also.
I wanted to check in to send kudos on your project, and to also offer the thought that water at 4-6 feet deep during full pool has a very good chance to become a 3 acre weed bed. I know the experts give weed beds big thumbs up for protection and propagation of forage, I'm not sure of the potential downside to the balance of the biomass in the pond. Let's see now the feedback shakes out.

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Thanks guys,

jsand13 I agree with the less bass the faster they grow, and I assume the less you would need to harvest in the first year or two. So 200 or lower will be considered.

Brettski, thanks for the kudos, I just love this stuff. Based on the way its still raining at home we expect it to spill tomorrow sometime!!!! I just cant get my head around that! I think based on survey taken that area will be a 3 acre weed bed most of the year.

I am still worried about how much it will dry up if we have a bad summer. But I think we all face that. I will post pics of it dry, but that was only five days ago lol, so I have not posted them yet. Also when I get home from college(couple weeks) I will get pics of it full.

Would love to hear from others.


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First learn about carrying capacity. See this link.
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92440#Post92440


As a general rule southern ponds will reach carrying capacity in 2 years or less. It will take even less time using advanced fingerling fish (6 in LMB and 3-5 in BG ).


150 6 inch LMB will be plenty. With those BG #s and TShad you will not need tilapia or GShiners for a while. A few GShiners to establish a population early would be ok.


TShad should be stocked pre LMB if possible but you need plankton for them to eat. They fill a different niche than BG.
















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I wouldn't spend any $ at this time; your water isn't ready to really support life. Water has to sit for awhile to let a phytoplankton and zooplankton base start brewing. Right now, I expect you have an acre of dirty water that isn't ready for fish. As more rains occur, you will add more non fertile water that is actually degrading your fertility. Wait until that thing is close to full, do a couple of tests, and then start adding forage.

More than likely, fatheads could exist in new water. They are super hardy but what is the use? Have a little patience. Yeah, I know. Me too.

Yep, and you are dang sure gonna get some droughts. BTW, after blowing a bunch of $ on expensive test kits, I now use swimming pool strips.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I agree wth DD1, EXCEPT, on one thing. I think you should put the fatheads in immediately if possible. They will survive and eat mosquito larvae to prevent THAT problem, also the waste they will create will jumpstart your beneficial bacteria growth needed to keep the ammonia and nitrate levels from spiking when you DO add the rest of the forage. Personally, I would put in at least 50 pounds of FH now.

Tilapia, in a couple years will help eliminate the 3 acre weedbed along with 8-10 grass carp if needed. Also, Feeding the FH will add fertilizer to help get everything else going. I think you could add the forage fish around late October if the FH go in now.

My $.02+



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My $.000002 says hold off. Admittedly, they will most likely survive but not thrive until the pond gets some decent fertility. Also, they will have very limited growth and spawning over the winter. BTW, I just heard on the news that Wichita Falls got 12 inches of rain in 2 hours this morning.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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JakeB below is a plan cut and pasted for a client that has similiar goals.

I agree I would not consider tilapia until 2010. I would suggest going with 2 inch fingerlings June 2009 if lake is full. 2 problmes with 6-8 inch in spring, one forage not well established yet also those are this years fish so 6-8 inches not the best growth. So here you go, keep in mind this is to maximize chances for quality bass, if larger growth desired cut bass stocking by another 30%. The less bass you have the greater the growth. Also mentieond to client some 6-8 inch rainbow trout fall 2009.

Based on 25 acre lake- quality bass
�� Stocked as soon as the lake is half full:
�� 50,000 1-2 inch bluegill. Traditionally 1,000 bluegill/acre is
recommended. Research has shown even better bass growth
achieved by doubling this number.
�� 50,000 fathead minnows
�� 5,000 redear sunfish (shellcracker)
Stock February-March 1,000 lbs. crayfish
�� Stock April- 25 Grass Carp 8 inches
�� Stock April - 2.5 million golden shiner fry
�� Stock April – 6,000-10,000 threadfin shad- 2 loads
�� June 2009 - Largemouth bass stocking (2”)
�� 500 F1 “tiger” bass
�� 250 Northern bass
�� 250 Florida bass
�� 250 F1advanced- held over in our tanks until July and hand
selected for growth and aggressive nature. These fish will be
the best of the best.
�� When available- 250 1.5 inch Hybrid Striped Bass


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jakeb Offline OP
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Thanks everyone.

DD1 your right we got another 4in. last night and WF got 10in. My pond has spilled. It is a good 5 acre. So I hope the water will be fertile by late Oct.

If I stock anything before mid to late Oct it will be a small dose of FH. I am trying to wait...

Will start thinking and formulating stocking plan agian. Will go with the 2" bass around June. As far as BG I would like to get more than 10:1. I will probably use mostly 1-2" fish as Greg mentioned.


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Congrats on the new pond! Keep us updated on what you decide to do and we always enjoy pictures. I have always wanted a trophy LMB pond. I bet it's hard to wait for the water to settle and get fertile. I know I would be chompin at the bit to put some fish in.



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jake I somewhat disagree about waiting to get it "fertile" What is advantage of waiting? If the FH and a few bluegill put on weight then great for spawning success next spring, and if not then fine also (as long as they do not lose weight). Keep in mind I think you have similiar growing season as we do. If stocked b/f mid October shodl get some growth if after doubt it so at that point no big advantage and might just wait until March. However if you have some water and can get some fish in without extra del charges I suggest stocking them sooner than later. Make sense? And Yes 20:1 or 30: 1 is the "new way" to stock your pond if growing big bass is goal.


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That's neat. Dang near filling 5 acres overnight. BTW, you are just North of the Red River. What color water are you expecting?

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 08/19/08 04:57 PM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Food for thought on BG stocking methods for LMB ponds. What is the easiest way to get lots of BG quick to establish a base for LMB in 4 mths for the same $ starting with spring stocking ? Use 1 acre for example.

1. Buy 1000 2 in BG at .30 each = $300 or
2. Buy 800 2 in BG at .3 each and 100 5 in BG at .6 each = $300

In 4 mths from stocking under no. 1 there will most likely be 1000 BG in that acre less natural morts.

In 4 mths from stocking under no 2 there will be lots more BG than no 1. There will be 800 of the first 2in BG less natural morts plus 100 of the original 5 in BG less natural morts plus the first spawn of the 5 in BG. Using average #s reduced for the fact that the female BG will have eggs based on weight (less eggs for 5 in than bigger females). 50 pair of BG using average spawning #s of 50 nests times 10,000 eggs = 500,000 eggs/fry. Even assuming 75% morts when there are no LMB to eat them yet , you still get an additional 125,000 baby/yoy BG in no 2 that you don't get in no 1. Plus you have 3 year classes of BG prior to the LMB being stocked.
















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DD1, the watershed for the pond is all grass, pasture, or No-till farm land. So I dont expect much silt. However the water came in VERY fast so it may have brought some silt. But with all the grass between any fields and the pond I bet its ok. The water color for a small pond on the same place, with the same type watershed (just smaller) is between 12-20" visibility year round with a green tint. I hope this will be the same for my new pond. Most of the "tanks" in our area are muddy, brown, and silted do to cattle and plowed fields next to them.

ewest, I see what your saying, and plan to do something just like your no 2


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eric agree but 4-5 inch bluegill now retail at $.90 and I have seen as high as $1.50. Also availability is not as predictable. In ideal world #2 is a great plan. In my world hard to plan on delivery of both sizes at sametime, if second del. is neccesary need to factor in a second del charge.


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Here they are at the same time. It can be done with a little planning. I did the same thing 3 mths ago also on 2 mths notice( at .30 for 2 inch and .50 for 4 inch also have some 6in coming @ $1) as in the pics which were several years ago. You just have to plan in advance which should not be a problem if you are building a pond to stock. My records over 10 years + indicate that historically 3-5 inch are 2X the 2 inch. Even at 3X you are only spending $30 per acre more.























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Sounds like I need to make some calls. Hopefully I can make something close to ewest's recomendation of the two different sizes happen.

However it happens, I plan to stock around 1000BG/acre and change bass numbers to fit 20:1 or greater.


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You can get a jump on fertilizing by going to Wally World and getting about 4-5 bottles of Miracle Grow Liquid fertizer and putting it in now. There won't be much chance of over fertilizing at this tim of year. I agree With DD1 that you wouldn't get a whole lot of spawning from the FH, BUT they will do well in a muddy pond and if they are grown FH, 50 lbs will add about a million fry for next spring.



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Here's the problem with stocking in North Central Texas and just North where he is at this time of year. The water is hot, not quite bath water, but too hot to move fish around.

Heck, I have an overstocked forage pond that I need to trap and seine. I won't be able to do it and move the fish until the end of September. And, the target pond badly needs the forage.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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DD1, I defer to your wisdom! I still don't see a downside to adding the 50lbs of FH though. They will reproduce even in the heat, they're cheap, and any that die will help build the bio-system that much faster and make stocking the BG this fall almost a sure bet.



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The top pic is looking out from on top of the dam. It is 17' at the bottom of the hole and the horses in the distane are about 5' tall. The area the horses are in is now a good 6' of water. The water is 3' all the way back at the fence(which cant be seen in this pic). The water now covers almost all that can be seen in this pic, except the far right which is a hill.

The second is a pic from the side, where the pic was taken from is now about 3' water and it slopes down from there. That is a 3/4ton four door dodge in the distance for refrence. That area is now I would guess at least 7' water.

These pics are not when it was complete, and I have not been home to see it or get pics of the finished product, only what my dad has told me.

I will never turn down a rain, so now I have to get a boat so I can sink some tree buckets and other "toys" as I like to call them. At leastthe dozer did cut some trenches and edges after this pic was taken. On the plus side there are many 2' bt 2' Mesquite trees in open area, I hope the fish will like.


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So how does this sound?

Once again 5 acre pond. Big Bass as goal.

4000 1-3" CNBG
1000 3-5" CNBG
50lbs FH
all in Fall 08 sometime

ewest, Greg, Dave, or others, would this be a good mix of larger and smaller size CNBG for the initial forage stocking? Just trying to get it planned out. Feel free to adjust any of the numbers.

later will come Tshad (March) and then bass (June). Still plan to stock a small amount of bass to get to at least 20:1


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Sounds great. Few comments.....

March seems a little early (we get them when ready to spawn usualy means late April) on shad no biggie though since no predators at that time. 1,000 would probably be plenty to seed the pond.

What about redear? I suggest 1000 1-2 inch ( hard to get them bigger)

No golden shiners, the 250,000 fry for $250 seems like a good deal to me.

Yep 250 fingerling bass should grow like crazy. If you can might mix in a few diff genetics say 150 F1 and 50 northern 50 florida (just playing here)



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Yep Greg you read my mind, I had the RES in the works, dont know why I never posted them. I was thinking about 15 lbs Golden Shiners (because I have a pond I can cast net that many out of) or the fry. and Thats about exact on what I had in mind for the bass.

Thanks for help.
jakeb


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