Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain new pond advice

I am brand new to the forum. Just recieved my first copy of PondBoss magazine. I have a newly constructed 1/3 acre pond. I went swimming in it a couple days ago to find out the average depth is about 7 feet deep. The pond has been full for about 2 weeks now, we filled with well water. We are about 50 yards from a larger 5 acre pound, so we get some wildlife over flow. We have frogs and tadpoles all over the pond, dragon flies etc. The water color is a nice clarity to about 1-1/2 deep and a nice green color as it gets deeper.

I have fish being delivered on Tuesday July 8th. I have an aerator on the way. I went with a 3400af from Kasco
The fish will be here before the aerator. I dont have any way to measure oxygen level. We have no vegetation growth yet.
I just had sod laid along the pond dam and around it to reduce erosion and filter water into the pond from rain run off.
My question is, is it safe to put fish into the pond right now? I am in Oklahoma, we right now have 93 degree weather and lots of sun. Does the pond need vegetation in it to create oxygen? We do have a lot of wind.

http://www.mac.com/WebObjects/Webmail.woa/814/wr?wodata=SMdKUltDvvhy-144

http://www.mac.com/WebObjects/Webmail.woa/814/wr?wodata=lIdIOKdCuGgd-132

That's a nice looking pond. You shouldn't have any trouble stocking fish now, just don't go overboard. What are you stocking?

The pond is between 1/3 and 1/2 acre. We are stocking

35 -Bass 1.5-2"
200 -3"-4"' Hybrid Blue Gill
150 6"-8" Channel Catfish -
75 1"-3" Redear
5# lbs minnows

Hi HankB, I'll leave the answers for the experts. I just wanted to say welcome to Pond Boss. I'm glad you found us.

I'll bet you've already read the latest pond boss article on Dragon Flies. I've always enjoyed watching them (their aerial stunts are amazing) who knew they were so beneficial.

What are your fishing goals?

Hybrid BG don't reproduce, redear reproduce at very low rates, and fathead minnows likely won't hold out more than 1 season with largemouth bass present. Simply put, there's not enough for your bass to eat. You're overstocking catfish unless you plan on eating 150 next year. In 5 years those cats could grow to 1000lbs. if none are removed, they also will become top predators like a bass. You're probably overstocking bass (depending on your goals, and assuming your speaking of largemouth bass). Common practice is to stock forage the first year then predators the second. The preferred forage species is standard bluegill with some optional others like golden shiners or fathead minnows.

We just want nice place for kids to enjoy fishing. I got those fish #'s from a fish farm and took their advice. I am a bass fisherman, and love it. I was not aware that hybrid BG do not reproduce. I assume the HBG are for Bass food as well as the FH minnows. I am not a catfish fan. They swallow hooks, catfish bait is nasty etcc. I do love to bass fish and would like to have perch for the kids to fish with a bobber and a hook. Any suggestions: I can change my fish order.

I am not the expert here and I am sure one of our experts will give you advice soon on what to stock.

IMHO I would change the order as they recommend, but it likely recommends FH and non-hybrid bluegill. Then perhaps this fall LMB.

I'd guess the experts would indicate that if your supplier can't supply non-hybrid BG then you find another supplier.

Bing

This info is off their web site: about hybrid bluegill
This fish is the number one stocked sport fish today. The Hybrid Bluegill is crossed between a male bluegill and female green sunfish. This particular cross produces a fish with the large mouth of the sunfish and the aggressiveness of the bluegill, which enables the fish to grow faster and larger than common bream. This unique combination is ideally suited for children learning to fish, all the way up to the fly fisherman looking for a new challenge.

(This fish will reproduce twice per year which makes it ideally suited for feeding a new or existing bass population.) However, this fish will reproduce at 90% male so it won't take over your pond like most bream. It will feed on a commercial feed with annual growth rates of up to 1/2 to 3/4 pound per season. With a good management program in place these fish can reach weights of 2 to 2 1/2 pounds and exceptional fish will reach the weight of 3 pounds or greater! Make the Hybrid Bluegill a part of your management program and reap the rewards for years to come.

hankb:

I did a Google search for the first five or six words in your quote and it came up Dunn's.

Do a search on this site for Dunn's and see how our experts feel about them.

Bing

Keep in mind fish farms are selling fish.

In my experience, I have only caught 2 F2 hybrid bluegills since they were stocked 5 years ago and those likely survived only because there was no bass present the first year. HBG are more aggressive and grow faster the first year but standard bluegill quickly catch up. Here's a comparison of same aged hybrid and standard:


Channel cat at 4 years, since you're a bass fisherman you'll recognize the lures



If you want big bass, 25 would be plenty for a 1/2 acre pond. They will reproduce and likely begin to overpopulate eventually. I do not have perch but there are some experts here. They are generally not counted as either predator or forage from what I've read. It seems as though it would be in your best interest to stock them early though since their easier (and cheaper) to stock in a pond without predators.

Have you considered Hybrid Striped bass? They are awesome fighters, fast growing, and do not reproduce. They also take pellets readily.

Now the info off the fish farms web site about the fish I am stocking is the Hybrid Bluegill reproduce twice per year and the FH minnows average life span is 14 months and they reproduce approx 4 times per year.
The 35 FLORIDA HYBRID/NORTHERN LARGEMOUTH BASS being deliverd are 1.5-2", I don't know if these reproduce or not.
The HYBBG being deliverd are 3-4" long (reproduce twice per year?
The Redear are to control parasites.
I would assume if the 3-4" HYBBG would have time to reproduce before the 1-2" bass had time to eat them, and that in the meantime the FH minnows would be food for the bass, and have time to reproduce, not to mention all the frogs and tadpoles the pond already has in it.
I am going to lower the Channel Cat order. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bass eat a lot! The hybrids will not be a food source considering the stocking timing and sizes proposed. In fact, I'm pretty sure a 4" hybrid bluegill could eat a 1.5" bass and will definetely eat the fatheads.

I'm pretty satisfied with my 1/2 acre pond at this point. I'm not a pro but I'll give you my recommendation for a 1/2 acre with some supplemental pellet feeding based on your goals:
Now:
150 standard bluegill
50 redear
10lbs fathead minnows
50 perch
25 Hybrid bluegill (if you really want them)

Next year or this fall:
25 largemouth
15 channel cat (if you really want them)
25 hybrid stripers (if you really want them)

Another point to ponder:
The HBG F1s grow well due to their larger mouth size and hybrid vigor. F2 and following generations of these fish likely will not possess these desirable traits and may in fact inherit less desirable traits. Here's an example of one of the rare F2s from my pond

HBG are a high % (70 to 99 %) males and therefore do not reproduce many offspring. Regular BG would be a better choice. If you want to create a put and take fishery then HBG can work well. That means put some in and grow them to size , catch them and remove them, and when #s get low start over.

The fish farm I have been working with is Dunn's.
I just want to do this right. My .40 acre pond has nothing in it right now. I want to start it off correctly. Also, I own a business and we pride ourselves on customer service and treating everyone with respect and I despise businesses who PREY on unsuspecting uneducated customers.
I read a few not so flattering post about Dunn's a few moments ago. Can anyone recommend where else I can purchase fish, and get the correct advice?
I am in the Central Oklahoma area. I am at this time considering canceling my order at Dunn's and starting over. Once the fish are put it it's to late so I really want to start off right. I noticed they did not have anything but HYBBG.

I just want a solution for stocking my pond correctly. Dunn's is the only place I know about.

According, to their site they don't have REG blue gill.

I want to stock fish that will reproduce and create a positive environment for the life cycle process, and reproduction. Also a place for kids to enjoy fishing. I do not want to have to re-stock fish, I want them to reproduce. I have invested a lot of money for of course construction but also an aerator to reduce stress on the fish and help reproduction and over all pond health. Therefore with these investments in mind, I would like to start off the pond correctly with the correct breeds, numbers and types of fish. I really appreciate Ryan chiming in with his experience. I just need some helpful suggestions and a direction to head toward as far as where to buy these fish.

Most state have information about where to buy stocking fish on their conservation departments web sites.

There was a forum question and answer here in the last day or two that gave the http for the location on Illinois's web site (as an example).

Bing

In Ohio, some county soil and water departments have fish for pond stocking in the Spring.

Another good place I'd try is Oklahoma State University's extension service. This link may give you some leads on who to contact http://www2.dasnr.okstate.edu/Members/ka...erm=aquaculture

http://www2.luresext.edu/aquaculture/aquaculture.htm

Also do a search on this page for "Oklahoma" http://aquanic.org/publicat/govagen/nal/resguid.pdf

Hank, if you're in a hurry to catch some big fish it's pretty hard to beat hybrid striped bass. I wasn't interested in them at first but added them after the unexpected arrival of gizzard shad as per Mr. Lusks recommendation. I have no regrets HSB are a great small pond fish. They grow very fast, take to feed well, and are extremely hard fighters. They do not reproduce so overpopulation is not a factor. I stocked 20 6-7" HSB in August of 2006 and caught three a couple of days ago that were in the 20" range on a nightcrawler under a bobber.

I have a 1 acre pond stocked full of everything! But if i was you i would start trying to get vegetation to grow and start putting structure in the pond now. Wait till fall and stock it with FHM, lots of CNBG and Shiners. Then stock predators next spring. LMB and HSB. IMHO catfish are worthless. There just no fun to catch at all. I started a feeding program and all they do is skim the top of the water when i feed and eat cupfulls at a time. I like for fish to put up a fight and only LMB and HSB do it for me. Catching a good size HSB on the bank of a pond is hilarious! They will run from one side to the other of the pond, till u get them in.

I really appreciate all the advice, everyone has been extremely helpful.
Thoughts I have had since my original post are: take out the catfish all together, or just put a very few in. Put in some standard bluegill, LMB, and I never thought of the Hybrid Bass but Ryan and JHFV have me really thinking. If I put in or want to put in mainly LMB and Hybrid Bass how many flat head minnows and standard bluegill should I put in? I really like Bass Fishing and am excited about the hybrid bass idea. Also, I have started on some cover, I installed some rock beds for spawning, and installed some of the manufactured cover(the green spiking looking things. I was a little concerned about adding cover that hooks and line can get caught on, just my opinion but I think fishing line left in the wild is extremely hard on all wildlife like birds, ducks, fish etc.. I am always careful with a line hung up not to leave any fishing line left.
Anyway, I may take Ryan's and JHFV advice and go with:
150 standard bluegill
50 redear
10 lbs fathead minnows
50 perch
for now and then next spring add some LMB and HYB Bass, what are your thought s about that? I am still looking for a place to buy standard bluegill.

What is CNBG, I am assuming some type of bluegill. also I thought fathead minnows were shiners. What is the difference?

Ok I see Coppernose blue gill, I am assuming these are standard bluegill and reproduce normally. The only place I know to get fish from does have CNBG. So if I start with say 10#'s FHM, how many CNBG. That is about all the forage fish they have available. I thought I would start with these two fish and then add the LMB and HYBBass in the spring, thoughts?