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CB1 :

Many of the Miss. administrative agencies have little to say about what can and can't be done as they are set by the Legis. For example almost every aspect of our deer hunting season is set by the Legis. not by the DWFP ( ie not set on biology but on politics). The Legis. is and has been about protectionism for a long time. \:\(
I don't know if either of the matters we are talking about are Legis. or agency results. If I had to guess one of each.Tilapia restriction by the DWFP and your taxi. problem from the Legis. as pressured by local taxis. to protect them from competition. ewest
















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mr willy wrote: "Say folks! My wife mentioned that she always heard that the fish Jesus used to feed the five- thousand was probably tilapia. Has anyone else heard of this"

mr. willy, these are exactly the types of questions you can gain answers to by joining the Templars Shrine of the Sacred Tilapia. Situated on the 150 plus acres of the picturesque Meadowlark Ranch, TSST provides the foundations for living the good life. For a meagerly sum of $1,000,000.00 per month, you can be a founders member.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Sunil:
mr willy wrote: "Say folks! My wife mentioned that she always heard that the fish Jesus used to feed the five- thousand was probably tilapia. Has anyone else heard of this"

mr. willy, these are exactly the types of questions you can gain answers to by joining the Templars Shrine of the Sacred Tilapia. Situated on the 150 plus acres of the picturesque Meadowlark Ranch, TSST provides the foundations for living the good life. For a meagerly sum of $1,000,000.00 per month, you can be a founders member.
:D \:D \:D \:D


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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 Quote:
Originally posted by mr willy:
Say folks! My wife mentioned that she always heard that the fish Jesus used to feed the five- thousand was probably tilapia. Has anyone else heard of this?
"Nearly all the species of fish in the lake today are those caught by Peter and his fellow fishermen--carp, sardines, mullet and chichlid, or Tilapia galilaea, which is found on restaurant menus under the name "St. Peter's Fish."

http://www.ourfatherlutheran.net/biblehomelands/galilee/seagalilee.htm


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Down here in Texas the Tilapia are a great success so far. I have said before that ML is the one who got me to try them and I say thanks to him every time I see the results. I have not been thru a winter yet but algae is a done deal and my bluegill are thriving due to the Tilaps taking the pressure off of the BG. It is a lot cheaper than chemicals and any time I can go natural I will. Anyway, I would recommend trying them if you can.

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Here is an interesting observation from our farm:

The last cold front that blew through had me cancelling survey jobs in order to harvest before we lost fish. Our water temps dropped to 56 one morning, which is just borderline mozambique tilapia death sentence. Anyway, we harvested to our holding facility capacity and left the rest, hoping to find someone who wanted quick forage. We did not.

There were 2 ponds left unharvested...one green pond that we knew was full of fish and one clear pond that never accepted feed very well. We figured the clear pond did not produce many this year.

Fish in the green pond are dead...we are raising buzzards. But as I drove around the pond yesterday as the sun was lingering bright and warm I noticed 1000s of tilapia in the clear pond...all in great shape...no fungus.

Moral of the story...clear ponds warm up faster than muddy or green ponds in sunny weather. This hold true with ponds that are clear and dyed blue as well...they warm up more during the daylight hours.

Both of these ponds started out as bluegill ponds early in spring 2005, but algae got out of control and we decided to switch them to tilapia ponds. Both ponds cleaned up by midsummer...stocked with 40 lbs per acre.

I just wanted to state my observations here...not making management or stocking recommendations.


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Todd, I am in Hubbard this weekend and went out to feed the CC's in a couple of small ponds today. These are the 2 lakes I added Tilapia to this summer. I had a couple of tilapia floating in both tanks...One with just a little life left in him. Man, these ponds are as low as I have ever seen them. \:\(


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I frequent this site quite often but never read this thread b/c we can not stock in GA. Well I'm getting my license for SC and I have to fillout permit but appears not too difficult to get them they just want to know where they are going.

I read a few comments but want to know, Overton, Ml, etc. what is rec. stocking rate and Tiliapia sizes for a 45 acre lake and 5 acre lake? thanks


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Greg,

I will respond from my experience, and of course, Todd has a much broader base of experience and knowledge.

Stocking rate depends somewhat on objectives, as usual, for the pond. If the pond has a bad algae problem, then higher rates would be advised. If very clear, then also higher rates and possibly larger sizes would be advisable due to predation. I started with 10 to 20 pounds per acre the first year...smaller ponds at 10 pounds, larger ponds with larger bass at the higher end. I dropped down to 5 pounds per acre for small ponds this year(small being 2 or less acres) and received complete algae control and forage production. I think the previous years experience helped in regard to algae control. In my larger pond, I held to about 10 pounds per acre.

Its kind of like how much of a good thing do you want or can afford. A 45 acre pond/lake, even at 10 pounds per acre, is a bunch of Tilapia.

Size...this is really personal opinion based on experience. I believe, unless you are raising them for personal consumption, the smaller sizes are actually preferable (4 to 6 inch) over the 6 to 8 inch or larger size. A 4 inch Mozambique Tilapia is sexually mature, will begin reproducing immediately. To me, two 4 inch Tilapia are preferable over one 8 inch Tilapia for forage production and algae control. Of course, the other side of the equation is predation. In my experience, the reproductive capabilities of the Tilapia overcome predation limitations and larger sizes are not required. That may change for me now that LMB and HSB are getting to be very large in my largest pond.

My bottom line: first year 10 to 20 pounds per acre of 4 to 6 inch fish and 5 to 10 pounds in succeeding years depending on results. That's based on two years experience with 4 ponds stocked with Mozambique Tilapia.

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I hadn't thought of it, but the number of Tilapia to stock in succeeding years is definitely something the intelligent pond/lake owner/manager would want to adjust based on previous experience.


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ml, thanks for reply. This is first year under mgmt. He has a good populaiton of 2-5 lb bass already. At this time no real algae concerns and we will fertilize to acheive 18-24 inches of vis. I think 6-8 inches would be better than 4 inches but I can only find them so far 3/4-1 lb in size. They are quite a bit less expensive though about $3.50/lb. I'm thinking 10 lbs/acre so 450 lbs would be $1575. He has money but like everythig it is on budget. The other 5 acre pond is new we just put in bg, re, fh about 3 weeks ago. I thought I could use fewer here and smaller size if I could find them. Your thoughts? thanks


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Greg,

Yes, I agree with your analysis and at $3.50 per pound would do the same thing. I'll tell you, if you stock a 1 pounder in the spring, that fish will be huge the following fall...easily over 3 pounds. I caught a 2.9 pound Tilapia this fall from a 6 inch stocking this spring. It will be interesting to see what happens to his bass...I predict smiles all around next fall.

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10-4 glad to hear that will workout I will submit proposal to client. It will be hard to track why the bass are healthier though b/c we are also stocking threadfin shad and improving water quality. So yes he better be all smiles or I'm fired.

ML I will hopefully thank you in person Feb 4th for rec. Are you still planning on coming to GA?


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I think the stocking rate would depend entirely on the ratio of shoreline area:total surface area. Lakes with lots of shoreline habitat (including shallow water) will benefit from more than 30 lbs per acre. For larger lakes with mostly open water as few as 1 lb per acre water.

If you intend to stock tilapia as forage, the most important factor to influence their survival is a good plankton bloom. With clear water no matter what size tilapia you stock....recruitment to advantageous forage size will be close to null.

We were out on a survey yesterday...three lakes stocked with tilapia...they adhere to the shoreline and submerged vegetation like a bluegill, but are extremely difficult to catch with a shocking boat...even pulling 10 amps direct DC currrent.

Hope this helps, Greg


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Theo Gallus:
...the number of Tilapia to stock in succeeding years is definitely something the intelligent pond/lake owner/manager would want to adjust based on previous experience.
Theo,

Perhaps you have seen the theory that one should not stock Tilapia because they will make your numbers of LMB increase and will also increase their size requiring that you must restock Tilapia every year or have a problem with oversized bass.

Their are two big problems with that theory, at least two. First, what is wrong with having lots of large LMB? Second, Tilapia, without question, substantially increased the BG population in each pond I stocked them in. In ponds that clearly were BG difficient and a pond that already had substantial BG, both benefited from Tilapia stocking with increased BG populations.

More BG means more forage and lessens the need for supplemental Tilapia stocking each year (and I might add artificial feeding \:\) ). I don't know yet where that sustaining balance lies, but intend to find out.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Grimes:
ML I will hopefully thank you in person Feb 4th for rec. Are you still planning on coming to GA?
Greg,

It depends on how close the location is to Birmingham (free Southwest flight from Houston Hobby). If drivable from there, I'll come otherwise probably not. Thanks.

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ML :

From B'ham airport to north Atlanta depending on traffic 3 hours +-. I hope you can come , I hope I can also. ewest
















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ToOdd thanks for extra reply it is pretty open on big lake so I will tak that into consideration. Lots of shoreline for smaller one. You do not have to worry preaching to the choir on being fertilie enough. I have to get it more fertile for shad I'm stocking as well.

ML, it takes right at 2.5 hrs from B-ham to the clubhouse where the meeting will take place.


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 Quote:
Second, Tilapia, without question, substantially increased the BG population in each pond I stocked them in. In ponds that clearly were BG difficient and a pond that already had substantial BG, both benefited from Tilapia stocking with increased BG populations.
Have we ever discussed why the presence of Tilapia improves the condition of BG in a pond? If so, I don't remember it. If it was just the number of BG being higher, that would be pretty easy to understand - LMB preying on Tilapia instead of BG.

My assumption for the reasons behind improved BG condition is that the Tilapia are consuming food (e.g. FA) which is NOT readily usable by BG, so (1) Tilapia do not directly compete with BG for resources. (2) BG may prey on Tilapia fry, directly converting some of the previously unusable food into BG mass. (3) By converting FA back into nutrients to grow plankton, the Tilapia indirectly contribute to the BG food supply.

Does that make sense to anyone?


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First of all, the addition of tilapia improving bluegill condition doesn't intuitively make a lot of sense to me, but it's likely because of my very poor understanding of what it is exactly that tilapia do. I'm really uneducated about them.

Your reasoniong seems sound, in particular #2, but my opinion on this matter probably doesn't hold much weight. Sounds like a good Overton/Grimes/ML/Lusk type question.


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I was going to stock tilapia last spring to take pressure off bluegill as the number one bass prey. With their extreme reproduction I hoped for bass to prey mostly on them instead of bluegills. I believe that is what ML and others refer to.

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Dave agree with you. Is this what your'e saying ML? Because you wrote"Tilapia, without question, substantially increased the BG population in each pond I stocked them in." This is what I question and think theo and BC feel the sameway. I do not see a way they can increase populaiton. I can see as stated how tilapia take pressure off bluegill from bass predation. THis my in turn lead to more successful recuritment into the system. This would appear as increased population but I feel it is a shift in bluegill populaiton size class. See the diff?

I don't really care however I think the tiliapia compete somewhat with bluegill but overall add to the forage base of bass. I also feel this way about threadfin shad. By stocking these species you are supplying more bass food that should result in increased bass growth rates and a higher carrying capacity and that is what many of my clients want.

I'll now step off the soap box, next up?


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 Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Grimes:
. I do not see a way they can increase populaiton. I can see as stated how tilapia take pressure off bluegill from bass predation.
I don't claim to understand all the mechanisms at work with the introduction of Tilapia into an existing LMB/BG pond. I doubt anyone does. I can reliably report actual observations and can theorize as to the cause of those observations, but there are many complex factors at work.

BG populations increased in all ponds. That is a fact. It was not expected, either. I would attribute that result primarily to significantly reduced predation on BG. I also attribute that to making better use of the resources available in your ponds. Algae can be a positive resource...it can feed Tilapia which then turn algae into usable forage...all without taking any resources at all away from other fish such as BG.

Think of it this way...if you could introduce a cow to a ranch that would only eat the weeds that other cows would not, then you make everyone happier...the existing cows, the new cows, the rancher, and those that no longer have to look at the weeds. \:\)

Under this reasoning, one could also postulate that the dependence on artificial feeding to raise LMB could be significantly reduced or perhaps even eliminated without any adverse effects...why? because Tilapia reproduction and high protein content(fact Tilapia highest protein content of any pond forage) may very well equal or at least partially offset the total protein content of artificial feeding. One could also postulate that the dependence on chemicals to control algae could be reduced or even eliminated.

Since I'm on a roll, one could even postulate, if he were a mad scientist, that predators that are feeding on natural forage, that have to hunt/stalk for their food every day, may be just somewhat more aggressive as a result.

Tilapia are a magic fish for my ponds. They are enabling me to achieve my pond objectives of high catch rates of fat predator fish without dependence on artificial substances in the pond management. It's working for me...and thats not to say it would work for everyone or even anyone else.

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ok, I understand what you are saying but can you be more specific? In what regards did you see a increase in your bluegill population? IN other words did you see more small bluegill, more intermediate, or more large bluegill?

I may be on to something here.... if you see more small bluegill... it is likely due to conversion from filamentous algae taking up nutrients to greater produciton in phytoplankton bloom. That would in turn increase the number of bluegill surving from increased food reaching them (zoo's and insects). This is especiallly true since you do not fertilize.

If you see large bluegill it is possible I guess they can fed on tiny tiliapia?

I do not see why you insist on not feeding however? :rolleyes: Maybe this should be on another thread. You state increased growth of fat bass. I thought your theory was fat bass do not bite as well, or was it bass do not feed as well b/c of supplemental feeding. Not saying you do not have fatter bass I believe you :p I just will be fertilzing and supplementally feeding both bluegill and tilapia b/c IMHO it creates a cost effective means to grow more bass food, start another thread for this thought if you like.


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The population of BG increased the most at the small sizes in all ponds. Increase in intermediate sizes was also noted, but primarily in ponds which were low in BG population to begin with. I already had very large BG in my main pond (can routinely catch 10 inch BG in spring and summer) and did not observe any increase in that class there nor in the other ponds as yet. I attribute the very large BG to artificial feeding.

I've no interest in starting a new thread nor in continued arguing with anyone over effects of artificial feeding on the aggressiveness (or lack thereof) of LMB. We've been there and done that, sometimes painfully. A predator that hunts and stalks for its food is likely to be more aggressive than one that has its feed handed to them twice daily. That's my opinion, borne out by considerable personal observation. I don't believe I've been inconsistent in that belief.

I will assert and discuss, however, the possibility that Tilapia can reduce the need for artificial feeding. In fact, in my experimental pond, they are completely replacing artificial feeding without any observed degration in weight gains from the predators, in this case F1 LMB. If you add more usable protein to the pond mix, use the resources (algae) that otherwise go unused, take pressure off BG and thereby increase their numbers...why wouldn't it be possible and even reasonable to see results comparable to or even exceeding artificial feeding? My assertion is that you can, and in fact for one growing season, the results indicate they exceed a pond with artificial feeding and without Tilapia. The journey continues.

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