Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Ray Scott's Lake Life Pump

Anyone (Bob Lusk?) have any idea how much Ray Scott's new Lake Life Pump will cost? Website says it will be available next month.

http://www.kascomarine.com/products/lake_life_pump.html

I think Bob will report on the whole 9 yards soon wrt the lake-life-pump. I have been following its development for a while with interest and have talked to the principals. There are a lot of us who hope to hear the story and see the test results soon.

IS the black thing that looks like a table the pump or am i an idiot?!!??!?

If you're an idiot I am too - I was thinking the same thing. Looks like the 'table' is part of the unit. Look at this drawing from the Kasco website:

http://www.kascomarine.com/pdfs/dvd_postcard_front_4.pdf

Has same principles of the Solar Bee except for circulating the water from the top to the bottom. http://www.solarbee.com/index.html

Hopefully it will be a lot less expensive than a Solarbee

Rob 120 volt 100' cord $4800 150' $5170 240 volt $4750 100' cord and $4960 200 ' cord. Max cord length on 120 volt is 150 feet and 250 feet on 240 volt model. If you have questions about the Lake Life Pump let me know. I'm excited about these they have their place. Obvioulsy placment near electirciity is limiting factor. Sorry so short, you guys know why, Dad is still hangin in there although he did not respond for 18 hours on tuesday and thought he was gone but rallied.

I'm told they are ready to roll off the assembly line any day now, who wants one. I know Tony Stewart was suposed to get first one out the gate Bob said.

Thanks Greg. It seems like a good product and will be priced attractively. If I recall correctly it will be a lot less expensive than a Solarbee. Since I have not run electricity on my property yet I will keep the wire limitation in mind.

I am thinking about you and your family. I'm sure what you are going through is not easy. I hope you and your Dad can find strength and comfort during this tough time.

There will be a description and short write-up about the Lake Life Pump in the March-April Pond Boss Magazine.

Keep the faith, Greg.

I saw the pump at kasco this winter, VERY interesting. I thought about using one as a bar in my rec room! One thing I worry about is the motor being exposed on the top, as geese and other varmints may like their own island to call home. Also, if it will turn water fast enough to keep from freezing (and possibly cracking) during the winter. Pricing seems very reasonable and the concept is sound. 20 acres of destratification sounds a bit much for me to bite on. Maybe with a perfect bowl of a pond. I can't wait for the write up!

Wow that looks hilarious! Something that big floating in a pond will sure get you alot of questions when the friends come over. It looks like its for big ponds or I should say lakes. I dont understand the whole fish kill thing? How does Ray Scotts lake have a fish kill that he probably puts ten's of thousands of dollars into and ive had my pond for years (1 acre) and the pond is 40 years old and never have a fish kill and I never do anything to it? knock on wood!! I cant justify 5000 grand on a pump. But if he told me i would be catching 12# bass if i bought one, i sell my truck and walk to work. If you want bigger fish why not buy tons of bait fish? Boy those lines going down into the water are leur magnates!

Spent some time at the Bass Masters in SC observing the Lake Life Pump, it is interesting and may be quite a circulator ( and maybe aerator also) I think time will tell if and where it fits.The jury is still out. I would like to see the performance data over a wide variety of conditions and over a multiple year timeframe.I agree 20 acres is a lot of water to circulate and aerate. Keep an open mind on this device and test results should be plentiful by this summer.

JHFV, If your pond is over 10' deep, then just by adding an aerator to your 40 year old pond you could possibly double the number of fish in it by giving them availability to the ENTIRE body of water year-round. And if there is muck build up from the years the depth will quickly come back as well by getting O2 to the bottom sediments for rapid decay. If you have never had a summer turnover cause a fish kill in 40 years, I want to be standing close to you in case of a lightening storm because you are a truly blessed man!

It looks like an interesting device.. shame I pulled apart my PondBoss magazine trying to get that dang DVD envelope off.

POttsy you want 2 or 3 of 'em? They are doing some good marketing. We have had about 4 leads but no sells yet.

I really like the concept of the Lake Life Pump, but (and I mean this in a completely constructive way) I wonder if the price point is just a bit too high for most pond owners. Perhaps a few different sizes could be considered with more approachable pricing on the smaller units?

That epilimnic water is high in O2, but it's also going to be high in BOD at the same time from all the phytoplankton. The net effect may not be so positive if the pond or lake is much deeper than the sechi depth since all that phytoplankton is going to start breaking down and consuming O2. Plus the water is directly injected into deep water instead of drifting in a lateral direction before sinking more slowly as in traditional aeration techniques.

Hmmmm a 20 acre lake with a very small hypolimnion could be aerated with a straw. That marketing point isn't carrying a lot of water with me until I see 20 deep acres.

The pumps they are using are ultra efficient low-head pumps like they use in water park "lazy river" streams.

My first reaction is we are seeing something using a different approach for about the same results, but with design flaws I commented on above. I think it's all about marketing, but time will tell. It is easier to sell something that looks different but accomplishes the same goals, than it is to sell just another aerator, even if that aerator is better.

Weissguy, the price point may seem high, until one starts to think about what they have invested in the pond. The Lake Life Pump is designed for best use in ponds larger than 3 acres, up to 15, maybe 20, depending on the depth. For even a 10 acre lake, pushed to its limits via feeding and/or fertilization, when the Lake Life Pump prevents one fish kill, its more than paid for itself. A typical 10 acre lake, stocked with fingerling fish, the owner would pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 for the fish. By the time that fishery matures (and about the time it would be ripe for a summer stratification-related fish kill) the fishery would be worth something to the tune of $25,000.

fishwhiz, you are right...the upper layer of water has a high BOD. I do take issue with your comment about the hypolimnion (the lower layer of water) being aerated with a straw. The hypolimnion is the problem, especially with southern lakes. That lowest layer of water has a low BOD simply because that layer runs out of oxygen quickly and it CAN'T have a BOD. Consequently, all the dead "stuff" accumulates on the bottom and when that summer "turnover" occurs, the pond dies...literally. The fact is that when a pond stratifies, the lower layer is much, much thicker than most people realize. It normally encompasses the bottom half of the lake. Because of that, at least 1/3 of the lake is full of "dead" water. And, the temperature can be 20 degrees colder than the upper layer. That water is so heavy that it's tough to mix it from the top down and dangerous to mix it from the bottom up. In its purest definition, "aeration" is simply adding air to water. But there are many systems in the marketplace. They are all good. At same time, pond managers figured out that aeration systems for recreational ponds and lakes have very little to do with aeration. They effectively move the water. That's what they do. They continually move water vertically, so nature can do what nature does.
When I first started studying Ray's lake years ago, I was suprised at just how productive it was. It is literally teeming with threadfin shad, gizzard shad, bluegill, redear sunfish, golden shiners and, of course, largemouth bass up to 15 pounds. In warm months, it has tilapia added to it. EVERY time I looked at the crazy lake, the 18" plankton bloom was somewhere between pea soup and olive color...even in the winter. When I started asking questions, I learned that Ray's staff fertilized the darn thing about every two weeks, starting when the temperature hit the low 60's. Then, I asked him how many feeders he had. Ten, going off twice a day. When I found out the lake doesn't flush with rainwater very often, I knew the stage was set for water quality deterioration and, inevitably, a fish kill.
Well, that first visit was during July that year and I was trying to wrap my brain around the whole thing...lots of fish (I had seen them during an electrofishing demonstration), fertility, feeding...my heart rate was a little too high.
I was watching the father of bass fishing set the stage to kill his own fish.
During that trip, he said he had something to show me. We climbed into his Triton boat, docked next to his house, and we headed off, up the lake, toward the dam. (Here's an aside...this may sound goofy, but I try to use all my senses when I evaluate a lake...what I see, what I hear, what I feel, what I smell). I noticed his lake had a bit of a "sweet" smell to it. Believe me, I have smelled the musty, pungent smell of bottom water, the odor of a watersnake, bass...and so on. This was a new smell. I saw an inordinate number of dragonflies, mayflies and aquatic insects. But, the lake was chock full of everything that eats that sort of stuff.
As we made our way to the dam, I saw this bulky-looking gadget floating near the dam. We approached it and he said, "This is my Lake Life Pump." Then, he told me his now-famous story of his fish kill years before and how it affected him. He told me how this pump gently pushes water downward, effectively making his entire lake one layer of water. The skeptical scientist/biologist in me wasn't buying into it. Then, he pulled a rod from its holder in the boat. At the business end, a silver spoon was tied on. He said, "Watch this." By then, we had backed away from the unit and he cast directly to it. He let the spoon drop, all the way to the bottom, 22 feet down. The line went limp, he turned the handle on the reel and started a slow retrieve. The third turn, his line went tight. He caught a two pound bass...18 feet below the surface, in July. I couldn't believe my eyes. He did it again and caught a fish on the second cast.
Of course, my next question was, "Do you have any data?" I was pleasantly surprised to learn that he did. He called his right hand man, Jim Kientz, asked him to grab his data notebook and come over. I pored over the data. It was intriguing to me. This device (which was about twice the size of the one Kasco is selling) was "aerating" the entire lake. They had Oxygen and temperature data for more than two years on at least 10 different data sites over the 55 acre lake. That lake was not stratified and was oxygenated and similar temperatures all over.
The more I watched and observed, the more I liked it.
Here's the whole concept...the concept is simple. The biological system in exceptionally complex. Move the water vertically all year (in the South) and "cleanse" it continually. There is no buildup, BOD is constant, nutrients are continually available for living plants and the water doesn't deal with the O2 "spikes" that "normal" stratified water deals with. Even though Ray's plankton bloom was thick, the Oxygen levels had much shorter spikes between darkness and daytime. I attributed that to two things. First, their fertilizer program was essentially to feed just enough phytoplankton to keep the zooplankton fed. Secondly, when the water was constantly moved, its biology was able to become stable. It wasn't continually working to fight its way to some sort of balance due to inordinately high BOD or heavy accumlations of anaerobic bugs on the bottom. What I was actually seeing was a device that enhances Mother Nature's ability to continually recycle all the nutrients that were loaded into it. You should see it. From the shallow-thinking viewpoint I started with..."why don't the fish die" attitude I had, it didn't take long for me to see the reality.
As I looked around, any nutrients which might be termed "excessive" were converted to some sort of usable biomass. Plankton was consumed by insects which were consumed by fish, which were consumed by more fish and so on. But, Ray's Lake Life Pump also has a measurable effect beyond his shoreline and he doesn't even know it. When that water is as stable as his, all kinds of life benefits. Several weeks ago, I was sitting on his back porch with him, listening to his stories, fascinated as usual. I kept watching songbirds and swallows swoop or land near the lake. When he went in to pour another scotch, I strolled over and started looking. There was a big hatch of insects going on and the birds were taking advantage of a fast meal. I asked Ray if he had noticed an increase in bird activity. He said he had...he was seeing more birds, more deer and more animal tracks than he could remember.
I believe his water hole is so productive that the bounty extends beyond the water line into the surrounding trees, grassy meadows and into the air. And, I believe it is because his water is constantly moving and the nutrients are constantly being used, not being allowed to collect on the bottom, only to be swept into the epilimnion in one fell swoop to inhale all the oxygen it can, at the expense of the lives of the rest of the lake.

Very good explanation.

Any chance there will be a smaller version for smaller ponds (1-3 acres)?

I would say yes. But, it depends on how well the marketplace responds. If there's a demand, I would say they would look at it.

Great post Bob. That was a real learning experience for me. Thank you.

It's good to hear that they might be considering smaller units as well. It seems there are more people who have ponds that fall in that 1-3 acre size than the 15-20 acre size the Lake Life Pump was designed for. One would think they would sell far more units by offering a smaller sized unit in addition to the original.

It would seem the original would actually be the correct size for my pond (12 acres, 28' max depth at full pool, about 10' avg depth). I'm interested in hearing thoughts/opinions/experience on using the pump in a pond a little further north of Ray. My pond isn't a Southern pond. It's in NW Missouri. I will likely add some sort of circulation/aeration system to my pond pretty soon, and the article in the last PB issue really got me excited about the Lake Life Pump.

I'm wondering how it would handle 1+ ft. of ice. Or would it keep the ice from forming around it?

Dave in water that cold I would take the pump out so as not to cause a winter kill by forcing cold surface water down to the warmer water refuge where the fish stay (no super cooling).

Yeah, I would too. Thinking more of a freak storm and the durability of the machine.