Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait What's up with the scuds?

I've searched for these for several years and finally found this source you read about here. I did find one other source but I don't think it was in bulk and I can't remember where it was. Do a search on fresh water shrimp or on the scientific name (gamarus? check earlier in this thread) instead of "scuds". You'll find more that way.

BZ, Thanks I did searches under scuds, under freshwater shrimp,under sceintific name,...etc I am impressed you found the one you did after looking further for one near me. Does you supplier only sell them over the winter? It seemed so when I looked at the web site.

If anyone else finds any more sites or folks sellingscuds I would be very interested. Thanks again!

Eric,

After BZ posted the PLM website, I went for a visit and noticed that they had an east coast delivery. If BZ, Cliffbrook and Cody have success with scuds this coming year, I thought about adding some to my small ponds. With this in mind, I sent Kyle (from PLM) a note and asked him if the "east coast delivery" included a route through NY. Based on his reply, it would not be a problem. We didn't go into details on his exact route but I would suspect that I would have to meet him at some predetermined location. My understanding is he only delivers during the winter months.

I do not know of any local sellers but a check of local hobby fish stores may give you some leads.

Russ

Russ, I found some local places that sell scuds to schools and labs for experiments. But they are at a rate of $6.50 for 10 scuds. At that rate I would run out of money before getting enough to establish them in my pond.

If I have to wait until next winter to add them I guess I will. I was just hoping to establish them sometime this year. Ever since finding out about them, my YP have been screaming for them!!!!

Eric - have you thought about building a "scud cage"? You could use a fine wire mesh that would keep the breeding adults in but let the recently hatched YOY scuds escape through the mesh. This would protect your adult breeders from predation.

This would be a modified a version of a fish cage, have you had a chance to read the article on fish cages in this months Pond Boss?

Here is another source of scuds, they are located on Ft. Collins CO:

http://www.cfiglobal.com/Aquaticfeeds.html

Bruce, road trip?

Thanks Shorty,

I contacted them and will see how it works out. As for the fish cage or scud cage Idea, I like that idea!! Just have to get some Scuds to even start out the process.

Stay tuned and I will let you know what I find out.

Here is a message sent to me from Kyle at Habitat NOW. It contains some direct information about how he handles and ships the scuds. I sent Kyle a link to this discussion about his scuds. And this was his reply to me.

Kyle says: "" Also, I noted on the bottom that I have a couple of gallons left that I can ship out if anyone is still looking. Thanks for the info...alot of good reading.""


""1 gallon of shrimp - not like the fella from Iowa stated, we strain the shrimp from the water and then pour relatively pure shrimp into a 1 gallon measurement...we then add the water back after measuring the gallon of shrimp. We are not selling you water. There is obviously some wetness to the shrimp but we try hard to make sure you get alot of shrimp.""

""Shipping - We add enough water to manage for the trip...it comes out to about 2 gallons of water to 1 gallon of shrimp. These are bagged and packaged with O2. BZ didn't have far to go with his shrimp so I just bagged them up.""

""* The more water we add...the higher your shipping cost is since you will be paying to ship water rather than shrimp. (smile)""

""* There are expected casualties. There are many variables that are out of my control once the shrimp leave my store. How they are handled, how long it takes to deliver, did the driver get lost, did they put the shrimp on the wrong truck...etc., etc. I hate these variables but there is nothing that we can do about them but accept the expected loss of some shrimp.""

""* Shrimp are only dead if they turn bright orange. The ones laying at the bottom that are not moving but are gray in color are alive...they just need some TLC to get going. From the reports back it sounds like our shipments are doing pretty good so far. Even if you lose 5,000 shrimp in a gallon, you still have around 15,000 or more still alive.""

""* Shrimp are sensitive to low O2, high Ph, silt and pesticides, etc.. Most critters are sensitive to all of these as well. I would then look at solutions within the watershed to reduce these problems. The fella with the farm field photo...I would recommend some CCRP CP21 and CP27/28 buffers strips through USDA. These programs pay VERY well and you will have enough money to buy some more shrimp. (smile)""

""* Fathead minnows are tough on shrimp when the shrimp are in the young stage...they are small and readily eaten. Not so much when they are bigger. That is also the importance of vegetation to allow cover for the young to survive and developed. If you have fatheads in your pond, you can still have shrimp...just don't have expectations for high survivals...but you will have some.""

""After trying to read all of the posts...it obvious there is alot of passion in your activities. Very enjoyable to see that.""

""I have a couple of gallons of shrimp in the tanks right now that I could ship out Wednesday for Thursday delivery or ship Thursday for Friday delivery. Go to the PLM web site at www.HabitatNOW.com and then to the Habitat Outlet Store to check the pricing for shrimp and delivery to your location. If that looks reasonable, call me at 320-760-9355. If there are other questions, I will be happy to discuss.""

I will say that there were a tremendous amount of scuds in my shipping conatiner. Many more that I received from other places. You do get your money's worth when you buy scuds from him.

You can tell the guy is educated by his writing.

BZ or Bill Cody,

Care to share any updates you have with the success/failure with your scuds?

Russ, I haven't seen any or went sampling for the scuds since I put them in. I am doubtful of their survival. I may do a sampling this week to see if any survived long enough to reproduce.

bill, how do you sample?

I haven't seen a scud either. I figured this summer as I netted out many pounds of duck weed I'd see some scuds mixed in. I looked a few times but never found any. I also doubt that they will survive in my bluegill pond. No other forage ever survives. I would also like to know how one does a sampling. I don't even know where to look.

Hey everyone...Kyle here from PLM...hope the new year is well.

I enjoyed reading the entire string...except for the beginning about not being able to get ahold of me. I am just as puzzled about...but here I am anyway.

I just wanted to provide you with a courtesy post letting you know that we will be starting our Freshwater Shrimp harvest very soon. If you are interested in shrimp or have any questions, please visit the link below for additional information. Feel free to contact me with any additional questions...please pass this information on to others that may be interested as well.

http://www.habitatnow.com/store/shop/shop.php?pn_selected_category=19

Here are some details...

$85 per gallon...20 to 40 "thousand" shrimp per gallon (it's ALLOT of shrimp)
Shipping is usually $30 to $95 per gallon depending on where you want it shipped.
FREE pick up if you want to pick your order up at our Glenwood, MN store.
Shrimp are shipped "next day" delivery if you chose to have them shipped.
Shrimp must be installed within 48 hours...24 hours for shipping and 24 hours for you to put them in your pond.
* If you open the bag when you receive them and put them into a larger container (large cooler for example) and put more freshwater or air on them, they might do well for several days or longer...just don't let them pile up and suffocate each other.
* ALL deliveries will be coordinated with you to assure that you are around to receive your order and are prepared to install it.

I may deliver personally...currently I have a route developing going out to Oregon (states to stop at along the way will be selected based on orders) and another going Missouri (states to stop at along the way will be selected based on orders). Personal delivery assures that I will be focusing on delivering shrimp and not everyone else's packages and as well making sure that nothing gets stuck in a warehouse somewhere or lost in shipping. * Other routes may be developed based on other orders. Feel free to email me with questions.

We will also be harvesting Sago and Celery in the spring after "ice-out". Sorry...we are out of wild rice until harvest in September 2008. You may place orders for rice as it is a first secured - first shipped option.

Again, if you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at info@HabitatNOW.com

Thanks!

Kyle, PLM
http://www.HabitatNOW.com

BZ, Bill Cody or Cliffbrook,

Are there any updates to add to this? I held off placing an order in hopes of hearing some success storeis from you fellas.

Russ

I have not seen a scud (Gammarus) since I released them last February. I will sample for them again this spring, but I am not real optimistic. I think my water gets too warm in the summer for them to survive or complete their life cycle. My pond has abundant plants and the freshwater shrimp (Palaemonetes) survive quite well.

Russ
I called Kyle back a spell when i had a free day in MN and wanted to visit, he was busy and leaving to deliver scuds to Miseri, i arranged for a girlfriend to meet him in Ames. I think he had a good year for scuds, as when i got home I had millions of wigglers, more wiggly than last year, i had a few catastrophyies getting them installed in several ponds and didnt get to a couple of ponds i was hoping toreach in the snow. Last year delivery was later in the year (?) and had a huge runoff event immediately after installation. This year I have much better expectations despite my rough handling. The packaging i recieved them in last year was first class. Kyle is reliable supplier and the scuds look like they be tender morsels to a whole bunch of critters. So it depends and we shall see. I thnk they are worth a try but you should get on his list early. He had his reminder here in early Jan adn i think it was end of Feb when he was making his delivery trip to miseri.

if you put the critter in this picture on a dime with plenty of room left, its pretty close to what the scuds look like

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...1&ct=image&cd=3

dont know what all the link is about but the thumbnail is dead ringer for a scud, but it isnt wiggling

Thank you both for the replies. Please continue to post updates.

Russ

If I locate any Gammarid scuds this spring in my ponds I will post results. However, I am doubtful.

Bill, if you have some aquatic vegetation and FA mixed in with some tree leaves try using a pitchfork to sample for them. Here is the variety I found in our pond this last weekend. Scuds can trapped in the FA pretty easily as you pull it out.

I still haven't seen a scud in my pond. My ice is just starting to open up around my aerator and the opening is getting near to shore. I was hoping that my aerator would wash some up on the ice so I've been watching for that. None so far. As soon as the ice melts over to shore I will try to fork some vegetation out and search for critters. I still have a forage pond that is low on water after last years dry spell. Vegetation has been starting to grow in it. This is where I planted my sago last year that I got from Kyle. The sago grew great until the pond almost dried up. I hope it comes back this year. My plan is a year from now, with plenty of vegetation growing, I will stock this pond with scuds and see if they grow. This pond has zero fish in it so my hope is that the scuds will thrive to attract waterfowl and if I can find a way to harvest them I'll transfer them to the BG pond. I'll be watching this thread for your reports.

Finally got to the point where I have some shoreline thawed out. I want out today with a fork and scooped about a dozen places along shore. I scooped up as much algea, dead duckweed, and other plant material as I could. I searched through it and found nothing. Not even a stone fly or other larvae. No scuds! I'm going to keep looking as more area thaws. I'm not hopeful they survived in my pond though since I have many fish and not much submerged vegetation. I think I need to wait until my forage pond has good vegetation cover and stock it with scuds. I'll try that next year if things go well with water levels and vegetation.

Anyone have an update?

Hey guys...hope all is well.

We started harvesting shrimp about two weeks ago and, if the weather holds out, we will be harvesting thru February and maybe even into March.

I am pretty sure we will have a delivery route going thru WI, Ohio and east...then continue down south to NC, SC and GA. I don't have enough orders right now to set up a route from MN south thru IA, MO, etc.

I have had a pretty good response from customers on their shrimp...especially the trout guys that have really like the shrimp for adding weight and color to the trout. Here is just one comment and contact from a customer...let me know if you have any questions at all.

Kyle, PLM
www.HabitatNOW.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe_Cross@irco.com
To: HabitatNOW.com
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: Freshwater Shrimp

Kyle,

Things are good here. Thanks for asking.

Unless something tragic happens in the lake, I think I will be good for the foreseeable future on my scud population. I can’t pick up any plant life out of the lake without seeing a ton of scuds on it. Thanks again and if you ever need a testimonial, just let me know!

Hope all is well in your part of the country as well.

Sincerely,
Joe

What part of the country does Joe live in?