Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Very Muddy Pond In Louisiana

I just moved into my new home which has an acre pond. The water is very muddy with a few inches of clarity at most. The pond is stocked and has never been fished by the previous owners. I've caught some channel cats and bluegill but only one largemouth bass. It was the biggest bass I've ever caught. But what I noticed was was how light in color it was. When I moved into the home I knew the pond was muddy but I thought it was a temporary thing due to rain but clearly I was wrong. The was was pretty much white. I,ve fished the pond pretty hard this past week and I've had a couple bites on lures, lost a fish yesterday, and caught the one on my first day(I'm talking about bass). So anyways I've been trying to find Aluminum Sulfate Hydrated but I'm not having any luck. I live in Covington Louisiana which is outside of New Orleans. I'd love to find a place locally buty if I had to pay to have it shipped it woiuldnt be the end of the world. So if anyone has a place in mind where I can buy it please let me know. I havent gotten the average depth of the pond yet so I dont know exactly how much I'll need yet but I'm guessing a couple hundred pounds atleast. Thanks

Have you tried to determine why it is muddy? Scoop up a jar of it and see if it settles. If it does, you probably have mud washing in or something stirring it up. If so, lime won't help. How are other ponds in the area?

BTW, welcome to our addiction.

Hey cimdma,

Welcome! Good to see another Louisiana guy on the forum.

Your problem is most likely soft rain water caused by all the rain we have been getting for the past year or 2. Your pond water is probably flushed out and replaced by soft rain water, which holds fine clay in suspension. Rain water is usually a bit on the acidic side, so you may want to do a PH test before adding magnesium sulphate, which is also acidic. It may be more appropriate to add a base to clear it, such as gypsum or hydrated lime. Gypsum is mild and harmless, but watch out for hydrated lime, which needs to be applied carefully. No need to totally clear your water while the pond is brimming full. Get it partially cleared while full, and when the level drops a foot or so in the dry season it will finish clearing.

Hey CIMDMA like Bobad said it's good to see another Louisianan on the forum. We're neighbors, I live in Pearl River. I've had the same problem with my pond for the longest. It took about a year for it to start to clear up. It's about 1-1/2 years old now, and it still isn't the way I would like it, but it is better. I found since I installed the aeration system it really helped. Like you, I haven't found a local source for Gypsum or anything else that might help the situation. Also, I agree with Bobad, it's hard to fight the amount of rainfall we deal with here in La. Do you have grass established around the pond? That was another big difference with my pond. Once I got grass growing it really helped filter the clay that was being washed into the pond. I wanted to put Gypsum in but couldn't find a supplier.

Ok, Today I ordered 200 lbs of aluminum sulfate and 100 lbs of hydrated lime. I bought a 4 lb bag of aluminum sulfate the other day and I put some in a 5 gallon bucket of water from my pond and it cleared it in a coupe hours. I bought a canoe yesterday and went out this morning and figured out the average depth which is 6'6". The surface is 1.1 acre's. which comes out to 7.2 acre-feet. But I ordered 200 lbs cause one website said 30 lbs per acre-foot. I did about 28 lbs per a-f. I think I have enough hydrated lime to balance the ph if it begins to lower to much. Hopefully this does the trick. I do have vegitation growing around and in the pond around the shore. There is no feeder creek but there was cause I could see it in my depth finder. The pond is 3-3 1/2 years old and I'm not sure what all it was stocked with. The only fish I've caught are bass, bluegill, and channel cats. There are probably 15-20 turtles that I've seen. Kent I'm not sure where Pearl River is but I know its not far. The only place I know are New Orleans, Covington, and the very near towns. In Covington there is a feed store where I'm getting my chemicals. They might sell gypsum. The store is called Spencers. You can give them a call. Thanks for all the help and I'll let you all know the outcome. Either I'll have clearer water or a big fish fry and enough fish to stuff my freezer.

Hi again cimdma,

If your pond is getting runoff from a large area, and is flowing through, it probably consists mostly of soft rain water. If that's the case, you may need a lot more chemicals to clear it.

If the pond hasn't overfilled and lost a lot of water, it may start clearing when the level drops a foot or 2.

If you try to clear up the pond when it's at full pool, it can be a bit too saturated during long dry spells.

Turbidity from soft water stays in suspension forever, turbidity from wind and runoff will usually clear up very quickly in hard water (slowly or never in soft water).

From what I've been reading, it appears if one has a spring fed pond with water coming in and out, lime and/or other chemicals might not last long. Especially so if the water is very soft. Am I correct in this assumption?

Really a newbie to this forum, but have the same problem with water clarity in my 1 1/2 acre pond. It's fed by runoff with about a 100 acre watershed consisting primarily of gumbo. The pond is only three years old and I just put a bottom draw aeration fountian in a month ago. What should the pH of the water be? I have it stocked with LMB and BG.

Depends on how much flow you are getting. A nice little spring can change your water 100% every 2-3 days. That would also depend on the shape of the pond and entry/exit. Whether the spring has hard or soft water, the pond water will be almost identical.

If your pond fills up and over flows from runoff, that will change the water too... and there goes your chemicals.

I caught another light colored LG bass today. Hopefully when and if I ever get clearer water it will bring some color back to these fish.

Thanks bobad, my great grandparents used water from this spring. Had it all boxed in. This was back in the 1880's. My pond is very clear. The spring runs out of the ground about 100 ft from the pond. Runoff is thru an 8 inch pipe.

Its been about 6 days since treatment with alum. I gained 3-4 inches of clairity, which isnt a lot but its much better then what I do did have. The fishing seems to be improving as well. I ordered more aluminum sulfate which should be in today. I'm going to try to treat it this weekend but I'll have to see how the weather is going to be. I'll keep you posted

200 lbs. should clear your pond to at least 18-20 inches of visibility. I just used 170# for 2/3 acre, but 8 ft average depth. Followed with 100# hydrated lime. Put in 70# alum, #50 lime, it went from 8 to 18 inches. 2wks. later, put in #100 and #50 more lime, it went to 30 inches. Hydrated lime does not change the ph as drastically as I was led to believe. Your pond will be fine. If you have an aerator, mix the stuff up a little at a time in a 5 gal. bucket and spread. Use the aerator for a couple hrs. Same with the lime. Then turn it off and wait. If no aerator, if you have a jon boat and trolling motor, turn it hard over and spin around.

PS...aluminum sulphate damn hard to find in quantities.

I had a heckuva time finding it too. Best I could do was 50# bags from a small local nursery, but they had to order it for me.

Agree too on hydrated lime not being real dangerous. Just plain old rain water is in the 6.xx PH range, and likely enough to keep the PH from going too high.

Been two days since I added another 200 lbs. of alum and it has given me 9 inches of clarity. For the first time since owning this land ( 1 month) I caught two bass in 1 day. They are still pretty white but at least I'm catching some. I hope that as the water gets clearer the fishing continues to get better.

Well I added another 350 lbs. last Friday and now I'm about to 20 inches and everyday since it seems to add another inch or two. I ordered an additional 350 lbs. but I'm going to wait alittle bit to add it. I'll keep you posted.

Is your pond unusually full?

If it is, it will probably clear nicely as the level drops, concentrating your chemicals.

Yes the pond is pretty full and has been dropping. The day I added the last 350 lbs. it rained that night which kinda upset me but it doesnt seem like it hurt it to much. I could see the floc floating for 2 days after I added the alum. It has all dropped by Tuesday. I was down at the pond earlier today and it seems to be holding steady at around 20 inches. Fishing seems to be improving. Just screwing around today I put a top water lure on and caught a little bass. The fish are still pretty light colored but I hoping as the water remains clear the fish will get back their natural color.

Cimda,
I have a very muddy pond in north Louisiana . Where did you get
your alum? Thanks
dw2332

I get it from two different feed stores in 50 lb bags. The stores are both in Covington.

Put in another 350 lbs. and it made a world of difference. I put it in two days ago and the water is clearing extremly well. Not only is the water clearing but the fishing is improving. I'm catching bass on a regular basis now and the fish in general are getting there natural color back. I was starting to think there were only a copuple bass in the pond but I belive they can see the lures now. I'll start taking pictures and posting them. dw2332 did you ever find your alum yet? I dont know how far you from covington but if your interested I can give you the names of the places where I buy it.

So how much Alum total have you put in? Glad its worked out for you.

Over the past month or so I've put in a total of 1200 lbs. Wow know that I just typed that I cant believe how much has gone in and and I cant believe I didnt have one fish die. Actually I take that back. I did have a minnow bucket with two little bluegills in it that my son caught and one of them died. But the bucket was about two feet from where I dumped 200 lbs of alum. This last time I added it it was about 7:30 P.M. right before it got dark and when I took my flashlight down there about an hour later it was unlike any other time that I added it because of how thick it was on top. Usaully you can see the floc floating but this time it was in big gobs. It was pretty nasty looking and I thought for sure I added to much but it turned out well. So now that I'm finally getting the water under control I'm starting to build structure to put in using pallets.

CIMDMA, hi, I'm from Louisiana too! I've lived all around. Spent the last 8 years in New Orleans, but was raised in Alexandria, which is where I am currently. By the way, congratulations on clearing up your pond and catching some fish. Man, 20 in. of claritiy . .. I can't even begin to imagine how that would look on our pond here outside Alexandria. It was always a good fishing pond when I was a kid, not extremely clear but not bad either. It's all red clay around here, so it gets red when the rains come and it used to settle after a few days or more. But NOW, it looks like chocolate milk with a little red mixed in. And the fish will NOT bite anymore at all. We've had some new constructions, (a barn and a new house) build on a hill above the pond over the last few years, and I know all of the bare areas and muddy runoff are where we need to start. We've put out grass seed, tons of hay, and run sprinklers almost every day to get this grass growing. Besides that, I think we'll start doing just about the same exact thing that you did. I'm going to test the water first, and see if there's anything else we need to deal with. But besides that, I think we're going to hit it with the Alum. and Lime, also I'd like to try some Gypsum. Did you ever try Gypsum? Or just mainly the Alum? I've got to look around and see what's readily available here locally in the quantities I'd need. But anyway, our ponds sound very similar and it's good to see some people on here from Louisiana. If you have any suggestions or tips you've learned since your last posts and the clearing of your pond, please pass them on. Hope things are still going well with your pond. I know it can be really enjoyable when everything is right, but virtually useless when it's just an acre of mud puddle. I'm glad I got to read your posts. When I'm able to get started on mine, I'll post info. on how it's going. Thanks again, take care, and have some good fishing this summer!

Cimdma,
I found some alum and put in 400 lbs in my pond and 150 lbs of
hydrated lime yesterday. No change in the pond as of today.
My pond is 3 acres with an average depth of 5 feet. Should it
have cleared some by now or should I add more alum? I would
appreciate anyone's help on this. dw2332

(what I noticed was was how light in color it was.)

Bass in muddy water are very light in color and bass in clear water are very dark.

If you pour in the alum without turning it into a slurry, it will sink to the bottom and get covered with what little debris falls to the bottom. This renders it effectively useless as it will not mix. You have to dissolve a 50 pound bag of alum in about 55 gallons of water and spray the alum on to be truly effective. You could pour it into a trolliny motor prop wash but spray is by far the most effective. I use a 40 gallon ATV boomless sprayer that sends a 30 foot spray.

I didn't have that problem at all in my pond. I can dump a 50# bag in shallow water, and the white blob of alum will be completely diffused and gone in 3-4 hours.

Bobad, thats true in the shallower areas since there is FAR less suspended clay and it is "mixed" (poorly) with the water from wind/wave action. In water deeper than 5 feet it is virtually useless to add alum that is not in a slurry since it can't mix well enough. Depending on how much is in suspension (Assume a lot otherwise alum isn't really needed) The deeper the water, the thicker the sediment cover and the less alum dissolved. this quote was copied from this website Langston Universty/Aquaculture---Clearing Muddy ponds

"How to apply

Apply alum to the pond in calm weather. Alum must be applied evenly over the surface of the pond and rapidly mixed into the water column. For small ponds, make a slurry of 1 part alum to about 10 parts water and apply to the surface. In larger ponds it is more effective to use a boat with motor and pour the slurry into the prop wash as the boat is guided back and forth across the pond.

Clearing should begin in a few hours and continue for several days."

You need to make the alum slurry so it can "fall" through the water column slowly to be the most effective. Alum will dissolve but does not mix with water_that is why it is called a slurry. If you pour in the alum without turning it into a slurry, it will sink to the bottom and get covered with what little debris falls to the bottom. This renders it effectively useless as it will not mix.

FWIW Alum is best sourced from larger chemical suppliers and averages 32.5 to 37 cents per pound.

Here is great magazine...

It is imteresting one...

Thanks for including me...
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For you pondbosses who already have an aeration system, I found this site using something they call "Floc-Logs". That's the beginning and end of what I know about them, their costs or effectivness though.
http://www.siltstop.com/Pond-Lake.htm

They look promising - we have some in our lab that we will be using for case studies this fall when things slow down a bit. We tried to clear a couple of sites this spring using the floc logs, but ran into some variables that affected the outcome. I will keep you guys posted on our results.

Thanks Sue. We always like to hear from you on new products. Please post what you learn.

Rainman, I will plan to use my ATV sprayer to treat my 1/10 acre pond. Did you have any problems with the alum settling out of the water and causing a problem cleaning out the sprayer tank? I plan to mix the alum in a 5 gal bucket and then dumping it into the sprayer tank an leave the mixer pump running on the solution in the big tank as I add the mixed solution 5 gallons at a time. I think ly boomless sprayer has a 35 gal tank. It is a Tractor Supply sprayer. 30 gallons of water is 240#s. If I mix 25# of aluminum sulfate in this amount of water that seems about right don't you think? I will do this 25# treatment and then wait a week to see how it looks before a second treatment. The pond is only stocked with a couple quarts of shiner minnows a couple months ago so I don't have a big concern with fish die off and don't think this will be a problem. Will the treatment continue to work over time or does the treatment just parcipitate out the suspended clay and settle it to the bottom one time? The water has looked like light brown milk since it was dug over a year ago. I don't think the water is being stirred up , just never settled and cleared up. RubyCreekTed

RubyCreekTed, Welcome to the forum!

I put about 5 gal of pond water in my sprayer then dumped the 50lb bag of alum in and mixed it pretty well by swirling my hand around in the sprayer and then continue to fill the sprayer with pond water while mixing (watch your arm on the sprayer opening edge, it can be sharp!). Not all of it will dissolve in the 35 gallons, but I refill the sprayer with pond water when it is half full and continue spraying. The alum WILL get hot if it clumps up badly, but not enough to burn. No chemical burn danger either, the acidic PH is like vinegar. I doubt you will get much improvement with 25lbs unless your pond is about 2 feet deep. 150lbs would be closer to enough.

If you don't get ALL the suspended clay out, the positive charge effect from the alum will be quickly neutralized and the clay will re-suspend as fish swim along the bottom and stir it back up. It is virtually impossible to over treat the pond and the extra alum is very good insurance. Also, unless your ph is around 8, add hydrated lime at 1/2 the weight of the alum to be sure to avoid too much drop in ph. The ph drop is WAY over rated as for danger though, the warnings are more of a legal CYA for the advisors.

Alum has been in my spayer for 3 years without clogging. The last use was to clear N&Cponds, pond about 2 months ago. I'm sure your sprayer is made by Fimco, It sounds exactly like mine. 30 foot spray spread? I adjusted my nozzles to spay about 5-8 feet wide and just circled the pond gradually getting tighter and concentrated the most spray in the deeper parts of the pond. If you use enough alum, the pond will be cleared completely in under 24 hours. If it takes longer, not enough alum has been used. I have read that alum, applied properly and not flushed out , will be effective for up to 15 years. If you get it ALL settled quickly though, it should never be a problem again, unless you have clay continuing to run into the pond. For runoff, you will need a grass buffer strip.

Best of luck and be sure to take before and after pics to post!

PS
I sent you a PM (private message), Check the "My Stuff" header at the top of the thread.

CIMDMA -
I know a firm in the N. Houston area who specialize in clearing up muddy ponds. Name of the firm is Clearwater Consulting. They will analyze the water chemistry and provide their recommendations as to amout of product needed. They have a website whereby you can email them. Hope this helps.
DBRs

So far so good. After spraying in 50lbs of Alum two weeks ago with a large capacity spray pump (empty's a 55 gallone drum in 15 seconds, to fast), and seeing no results, I decided to use my 35 gallon Tractor Supply special and slowly desolve the alum and then use a fine spray to move around the pond in a jon boat. This worked very well. Two water samples two hours later, one was completly clear and the other was only cloudy. Both samples with heavy clay bottoms.
I believe that I have the most suspended clay in the world that could set a record for suspended clay, ZERO visiblity. This is a newly dug pond less then one year old, 150 ft across by 18 ft deep. Presently have 7 ft (darn drought here in Texas and Ike passed us by).
So, I beleive I have wasted the first 50lbs and hope the 25lbs just sprayed, will be enough.
Plan to spray in 5 50lbs bags of Lime to help the PH out.
Tip, never add water to alum, it turns to a paste and sets up. Always add alum to large amount of water and stir till it desolves.
Hope to add fish next month.

Ken, be careful with the lime. That is quite a bit if it is Hydrated lime and might lower the Ph too fast. If you are usin Ag lime you'll be fine and there is no need to try to dissolve it. For your amount of colloidal clay, you may need another 2-3 hundred pounds of alum for good results.

BTW PICS!!!!

Rainman, your correct, as I see alot of your posts are. Added three bags of Hydrated Lime and 25lbs of Alum. Next day, pond looked like the Carribean. To much Lime for sure. Over a three week period we have added a total of 5 bags hydrated lime and 100 lbs of Alum. The results over this time has been for the dark clay color to turn light brown, but still suspended. This last introduction took the pond over the top and it cleared within 12 hrs.
So, took a water sample from the test kit for my pool. Can someone help with the interpretation of the results.
Alkalinity: 100 ppm, Great for a pool, but for a pond??.
PH: Off the chart (High), took 15 drops to bring it (lower it) into correct range.
Several months ago, my son caught a bass over in the neighbors pond, 6 or 7 inches. He went and put this bass into our pond. Since we could not see an inch into our pond, we had no idea if this guy survived. Well, low and behold, there he is swimming around the pond with no place to hide now that you can see to the bottom of the pond. What I noticed, he was slow with lot's of red blood markings around all his fins and lips. I suspect we gave him the chemical shock of his life.

Ken, I don't know much about hardness, alkalinity, etc. IIRC, 100 PPM is pretty close to the middle of where it should be. Ewest cam give you the best range, but I THINK the high range for alkalinity is 200PPM. As for the Ph, since the bass is alive, leave the Ph alone! You can easily get into a tug-of-war with acids and bases, especially since Ph can change so much during the day.

I don't understand why you added so much hydrated lime. If you were having a low Ph problem, AG lime would have been better. Too much Hydrated acts almost instantly and is lethal to fish from the shock it causes. FORTUNATELY, hydrated lime is NOT long acting and the Ph should return to it's normal range within a couple to a few weeks.

I advise you to monitor the Ph every couple weeks for a few months just to insure it does NOT fall below 6.0. At a Ph of 6.0, aluminum dissolves and becomes toxic to almost everything, including humans. If you want to be 100% safe from that, I strongly advise adding AG LIME to act as a buffer. Also, it is not possible to over apply ag lime as the Ph will max out in a very safe range.

Good job Rainman. Ken I hope this helps a little.

See these.

SRAC 460 Control of Clay Turbidity in Ponds


SRAC 464 Interactions of pH, Carbon Dioxide, Alkalinity
and Hardness in Fish Ponds

http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25


Fish and other vertebrates have an

average blood pH of 7.4. Fish

blood comes into close contact

with water (1- or 2-cell separation)

as it passes through the blood vessels

of the gills and skin. A desirable

range for pond water pH

would be close to that of fish

blood (i.e., 7.0 to 8.0). Fish may become

stressed and die if the pH

drops below 5 (e.g., acidic runoff)

or rises above 10 (e.g., low alkalinity

combined with intense photosynthesis

by dense algal blooms –

phytoplankton or filamentous

algae).



A desirable range of

total alkalinity for fish culture is

between 75 and 200 mg/L CaCO3.



Ideally, an aquaculture pond

should have a pH between 6.5 and

9 as well as moderate to high total

alkalinity (75 to 200, but not less

than 20 mg/L) and a calcium hardness

of 100 to 250 mg/L CaCO3.

Many of the principles of chemistry

are abstract (e.g., carbonate-bicarbonate

buffering) and difficult

to grasp. However, a fundamental

understanding of the concepts and

chemistry underlying the interactions

of pH, CO2, alkalinity and

hardness is necessary for effective

and profitable pond management.

There is no way to avoid it; water

quality is water chemistry.