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#11210 04/12/05 03:27 PM
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I haven't used cage culture myself but am very interested in seeing a HSB culture attempted. I know there have been some past successes reported in the literature and there may be a couple of forum contributors who are about to embark on this mission.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#11211 04/12/05 04:57 PM
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Cecil,

Thanks for the link, that's one I hadn't seen. By the looks of their fish load and cage size calculations I should be OK. I was going to try about 100 3-5" fish split into 2 pens of 50 each placed on either side of the diffuser. I was concerned about crowding and disease as Bruce had mentioned in an earlier post but think the potential for fungus will lift a little after the water warms up some. One supplier I spoke with today said they can be prone to fungus and had some of his stock in quarantine at present.
I'm really interested in trying this, my pond is only 2 acres surface,(built in 1977) and the Green Sunfish are thicker than I'd like. I wanted to have some growing time for the HSB and that will give me a chance to trotline the channel cats out and give them a better chance. Any help or input appreciated.

Chip


#11212 04/12/05 06:14 PM
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Chip,

If you have any questions about cage culture give me a holler. Like I said I didn't growout HSB's but I've had really good luck with LMB's.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#11213 04/13/05 06:24 AM
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Thanks Cecil,
I'm sure to take you up on that. I'll be over your way next week, do you have any cages I could take a look at?
Thanks,
Chip


#11214 04/15/05 09:13 PM
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an idea similiar to the pom poms. i take salmon egg flies i bought for fishing for rainbow trout in alaska and using a 8wt fly rod, after the feeder throws the floating pellets i cast into the pellets and the channel catfish will tear it up. one pond has 20 grass carp and sometimes they will hit the fly.

#11215 04/16/05 05:34 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Chip Rowland:
Thanks Cecil,
I'm sure to take you up on that. I'll be over your way next week, do you have any cages I could take a look at?
Thanks,
Chip
Chip,

Yes I have one in the water with bluegills in it, and another one is sitting up on the bank that needs to be repaired and moved to a different pond. Just call ahead to make sure I'm around as I sometimes run errands etc.

(260) 894-9055


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#11216 04/16/05 05:38 PM
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Kills me to read this thread, all this HSB fun and we can't bring them into Michigan.

#11217 04/16/05 06:11 PM
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There's a good Michigan joke there somewhere, but I haven't the heart.

Theo Gallus, OSU 1982, 1985


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#11218 04/17/05 02:24 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Young:
Kills me to read this thread, all this HSB fun and we can't bring them into Michigan.
Yes, some in your state DNR are a little too gungho. I've seen a few of them speak at the Michigan Aquaculture meetings and one recent one was really "full of it." It was actually funny to listen to how ignorant he was regarding grass carp (not legal in Michigan either) when most of the listeners in the room had him beat by a mile in fish culture knowledge.

I feel for ya. At least in my state of Indiana they are more open minded, but they too have some tunnel vision issues.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#11219 04/18/05 05:47 AM
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Thanks Cecil,

I'll give you a call and try for Tuesday.

Chip


#11220 04/18/05 09:26 AM
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Cecil,

Mentioned in another post that I went down to Ridgeview Finfarm to pick up BG and RES on Saturday so I did some checking around about bringing fish across the state line. I talked to the MDNR fisheries division and the enforcement division and nobody knew the regulations. As it turns out, the Department of Agriculture regulates the importation of fish. We do not need a permit as long as they are not for resale. You are supposed to have the bill of sale and a health certificate.

As for the HSB, the Dept of Ag told me that they are too aggressive and displace native species. I reminded them that HSB do not reproduce and that I have no inlet or outlet to my pond (to deaf ears). Hesterman had plenty and I was tempted to stuff a few in my pockets but he wouldn't sell them to me anyway because he knew I was from Michigan.

Maybe some birds will drop a few in my pond.

#11221 04/20/05 02:56 PM
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Any recommendations for where a person in south central Illinois could get some hybrid stripers to stock? I think my largemouth bass are coming in June.


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#11222 04/20/05 04:04 PM
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Steve,

You might want to contact the Michigan Department of Agriculture - a Dr. Nancy Frank.

Michigan Department of Agriculture:
Dr. Nancy Frank
Animal Industry Division
P.O. Box 30017
Lansing, MI 48909
517-373-1077
FrankN@michigan.gov

It's possible the MDNR is giving you a bum steer since they don't want them, but it's really up to the departement of ag and a private pond owner may be able to have them. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen DNR's attempt to deceive someone regarding regulations (been there done that several times with other states).

Check out the following post on an aquaculture site and you will see what I mean.

"HSB in Michigan
From: Phil
Date: 05 Dec 2004
Time: 08:56:52
Remote Name: 68.188.209.20.gha.mi.chartermi.net

Comments
I recieved a reply from Dr. Frank about HSB as an Aquaculture Species in Michigan.

Dr. Frank basically stated that it would be very difficult to gain approval for HSB, as the MDNR is very concerned about the species being released into the public waters.

A research permit most likley would not be granted either.

This is the part I dont get;

"There is an exception to the aquaculture law for non commercial use of fish in private waters. So, if you were going to have the fish for your own personal use as a hobby, this would be a possibility."

Seems to me that the law is backward. A professional Aquaculturist, who would have in place the appropriate procedures and safeguards against an accidental release, is not allowed to posess HSB. But any Tom, Dick and Harry, who may not be aware of the concequences of an accidental release (or intentional release) can.

Dr. Frank is willing to pursue the issue with the MDNR. Maybe we can provide her with the appropriate ammunition.

Steve VG, I forwarded Dr. Frank's reply to you. Maybe an exception can be hashed out for Closed Systems, just as long as the fish dont mutate and grow legs."

Phil


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






#11223 04/22/05 10:27 AM
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I should have read previous posts more thoroughly. I contacted Keo Fish Farms (501) 842-2872 and will be ordering some from them.


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#11224 04/27/05 02:52 PM
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HSB UPDATE
Our original ¼ acre forage pond that converted to a HSB “grow out” pond, was stocked with fathead minnows last fall, and have reproduced prolifically.

150, 4-6 inch HSB, stocked in February have not been actively feeding on high protein pellets, resulting in concern over survivability, but now the reason is obvious, they have an appetite for fatheads and are now actively surface feeding on minnows in addition to pellets.

By sheer accident, it now appears a valid approach to stock forage fish prior to stocking predator fish in a “grow out” pond, as well as conventional stocking.

We are anxious to try to catch some in the weeks ahead to monitor growth.

The plan is to transfer 8-10 inch HSB to main pond before hot summer if possible, since we have no fresh water or aeration available.
Past painful lessons learned, smaller HSB are expensive LMB food…!

It will be interesting to see if any survive for fall transfer to main pond.

To be continued…………..

George Glazener
N.E. Texas 2 acre and ¼ acre ponds

#11225 05/16/05 03:27 PM
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Cecil,

I got busy and haven't had a chance to post lately but I have 120 HSB being delivered this evening. I built a cage along the guidelines from the links and suggestions you and others have supplied.

I'll keep you posted on how things go.

Thanks,

Chip


#11226 05/18/05 10:04 AM
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George, any updates. I was just reading through this thread again and was interested in your latest observations on your grow out pond.


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#11227 05/18/05 11:18 AM
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NEDOC, I’ll begin transferring HSB from grow-out pond to main pond, hopefully early next week.

See Pond Boss » Stocking a new pond » Types of fish to choose
» George's photos , thanks to Bruce Condello.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000308

4-6 inch HSB stocked late January are currently near 8 inches – if I can manage to catch them in a cast net… \:D

The “grow-out” pond was originally planned as a “forage” pond and was stocked with fathead minnow and red-ear sunfish and they have grown fat on fatheads and new red-ear sunfish spawn. They are also fed on high protein fish food and difficult to catch on hook and line.

So far – so good…!
I am very excited about the prospect of a good HSB fishery.

George Glazener

#11228 05/18/05 01:21 PM
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George:

Do you have a feel for how well HSB would do controlling RES offspring in a small pond? (HSB being touted as less than or equal to LMB at BG control and RES having fewer offspring than BG.)


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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#11229 05/18/05 06:52 PM
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Theo, the RES in the grow-out pond are about 4 inches and were stocked June 04.
I was surprised at the early spawn that are about 1 ½ to 2 inches at this time.

My supplier and fisheries biologist tells me that all the fathead minnows and RES spawn should be gone by June.

We will transfer the mature RES to main pond as well as the grown-out HSB.

I have a lot to learn about HSB performance in conjunction with LMB – but they should have plenty to eat with BG, RES, Tilapia, and high protein fish food.

We have not considered RES as primary forage - just a fun fish to catch.

It’s an interesting experiment and will report progress.
George Glazener

#11230 05/19/05 09:02 AM
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George,

Way to go my friend! Let us know, if you haven't already, how the transfer goes.

I'm planning to do the same in a couple of weeks or so. Its great that you've gotten 8 inches size. I think you will have a very high survival rate upon transfer with your Tilapia in place as forage.

I think we may be getting a system established for Texas ponds that will be the envey of many and even a model for others to use. I know it has terrific potential for me and my ponds. Thanks.

#11231 05/19/05 10:01 AM
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George,

If you were a little closer I'd bring the fly rod over and help you move some of those 8-inchers. Believe me...they'll be 9 and 10 inches pretty dang quick. \:\)


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
#11232 06/03/05 03:34 PM
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Just got this sent to me

Indiana wiper record broken --- again

A second state-record hybrid striped bass has been certified this spring by
the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. David Coffman from Frankfort,
Ind. caught the new record fish May 22 below Lake Freeman's Oakdale Dam.

The white bass/striped bass hybrid, often called a wiper, weighed 22 pounds,
and was 32 inches long. The fish's tail fin spanned a foot rule. The new
biggest-ever Indiana wiper beat the 19.5-pound record wiper caught below the
same dam on April 30.

Coffman's wiper hit a crankbait lure cast in the early morning darkness and
drawn across the Tippecanoe River below the Lake Freeman dam.

"The wipers are a new fish for me," said Coffman. "But I've really focused
on them for the last three weeks. I caught a couple 16 pounders, and then
the big fish, where the current breaks (below the dam)."

"The fish was like something you would see in the ocean," said Coffman.

Click here for picture: http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/stuff/gallery/hybrid.htm

#11233 06/03/05 08:10 PM
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That is one huge Wiper! Can you imagine pulling that out of a river?? Wow!


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If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
#11234 08/01/05 09:21 AM
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HSB plan is coming together....!

2003
3-5 inch HSB stockers currently running about 2 ½ to 3 lbs – low survival rate due to LMB predation.

January 2005
200, 4-6 inch HSB stocked in “grow-out” pond. Undetermined survival rate.
They have been raised on fathead minnows and Aquamax high protein fish pellets. Should be 10+ inchers currently.
Will begin harvest and transfer to main pond when water cools.

February 2005 – 15, 10-inch stockers in main pond, currently 1½ lbs. Good survival rate.

Early Spring 2006 Plan:
April stocking program in “grow-out pond” with undetermined number of 2-inch HSB fingerlings and Tilapia breeding pairs.
No supplemental feeding – tilapia forage only.
Harvest HSB early winter when lowering water temps kill-off tilapia.

Very interesting program - have gone from “can’t do that” to “can do that” in three years.

George Glazener
N.E. Texas ¼ acre and 2 acre ponds

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