Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Do new ponds leak for a while?

I built my pond back in December and it seems to leak about an inch per day. Do ponds take a while to seal? The ground seemed to have a decent amount of clay when we were digging so we didn't add any betonite.

Someone from another board contacted me and said I could have up to 80 tons of bentonite for free if I picked it up. The freight is not a problem because we have a family trucking company and it is only a couple hours away. I don't want to drain the pond now because our spawn is just around the corner. I am thinking of waiting until the spawn is over then letting the pond drain down a few feet and at this time make an attempt at sealing the sides. There is a lot of cover on the bottom so I am not sure how well broadcasting the betonite on the surface will help. Any thoughts?

New ponds will wick for a while. I would not get to concerned yet. If you can get free benonite I'd say get it it can only add to sealing your pond weather it needs it or not. It's free I don't think you have anything to lose. But I would monitor it for a while longer before concluding your pond has a leak. I'd say get it and stock pile it until you get a dry year and then apply it around the edges and broad cast the rest as you can.

hi mt, check out this thread if you havent seen it yet...it'l either help you or really confuse you, good luck..

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=78436&fpart=1

Don't know about other ponds, but mine drops an inch a week. It's doen this since it was full enough that I could start measuring it. If it's really hot out, that number triples.

Since it's been consistant, I either have a leak that has been ongoing since day one, or it's normal evaporation, which I believe to be true.

If it's leaking from day one, why would it stop leaking on it's own?

Eddie

mttallery,

If you live in a dry area, it can take months for the soil surrounding your pond to stop wicking. It's usually the top layer, or topsoil that does most of the wicking. If that's the case, the lower the water goes, the more the leak will slow down. If the leak remains fairly constant even after the water level is pretty low, it's a sign you may have a true leak. Sandy topsoil takes longer to soak, as it will wick the water farther from the pond. If you have the sandy stuff, it could take another month or 2 to stop wicking.

Rockeytopper had some great advice. Hedge your bet by being patient, giving the pond time to stop leaking on its own. But have some of that free bentonite handy just in case.

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

mtalley:
You do not say how large your pond is, but it can take a long time for the ground to saturate when filling for the first time. I think you had some good advice from the guys above and I would just monitor the level.

"bobad" has a good comment" Sandy topsoil takes longer to soak, as it will wick the water farther from the pond."

Mike Otto (expert pond builder) says "...but it can take a long time for the ground to saturate when filling for the first time."

Both are very good points. Depending on how well the pond basin is constructed and how well it is compacted it could take a long time for the soils to become saturated with water. Worst case, they may never become fully saturated or the water in certain areas may find a pathway through the pond basin - thus forming a leak that could increase or decrease over time. Generally, tighter denser soils will require less time for saturation compared to more loosly compacted "lighter" soils that take longer periods to become water logged. There are numerous variables here with regards to pond seepage or leakage. As always it all depends.

Pond leakage and or seepage is all about density of the soil, degree or amount of clay and compaction. A soils person once told me all ponds with basins built of soil will leak; it just depends on the degree of leakage. Just one small area of an entire pond basin where soils are more loose or loosly compacted can result in an area where water seepage beyond the pond basin can occur. Obviously the larger the seepage area the more the leakage.

Causes and life histories of leaks are varied. Some leaks can get worse and some leaks can become reduced over time. It all depends.

Obviously the more marginal ones soils for building a properly sealed pond the greater the chance of leaks and then the more the contractor has to, or should take more provisions during construction in marginal or less than ideal soils.

As an example of excellent soils for building ponds, I my area our soils typically have a high quality yellow or even blue clay in the deeper ground strata. These blue clays when properly compacted create a very water tight pond basin. These ponds have almost no measureable or noticable water loss due to soil absorption when the pond is first filled by pumping it full. These new freshly compacted and unfilled basins are often composed of a layer of dark blue-gray, shiny, slick appearing almost rock hard clay. It is diffciult to pound stakes in these well compacted clay pond basins. These compacted clays form a basin that is for all practical purposes impervious to seepage. Water will wick up the bank from the water level, but seepage through the well compacted core trench is essentially none or at most minimal. The exceptions almost always occcr where areas were not well compacted and or contained small pockets of loose grainy soils.

Poor compaction can be due to using improper equipment and or getting in a hurry and trying to compact too thick of layers of soil. Adequate pressure of equipment from compacting soil will only be effective to a certain depth. As the depth or layer of soil increases the effectiveness of compaction pressure applied to the surface becomes reduced with increasing depth. That is why it is best to usually compact layers of soil that are only around 6"-8" thick so the entire layer gets adequately compacted. A greater thickness of soil layers usually results in poor compaction between the two layers. The best compaction tool for soil is a sheepsfoot roller that has many large round prongs of "teeth" like projections. These tools are designed for compacting soil. These "teeth" serve to knit the soil layers together which minimizes water seepage between layers. Water always seeks the path of least resistance which often occurs between two layers or "sheets" of improperly compacted soil.

IMO when you create a pond by just essentially creating a dam from an excavated basin you can expect that there will be at least some areas where the soil in the basin will be loose enough to allow water seepage to excape from the basin. Believing otherwise would be very optimistic.

Many ponds are build utilizing a dam and watershed to help keep the pond full of water. If a pond regularly receives watershed runoff or stream inputs, the affects of pond seepage or leakage is minimized.

For reference, many of the well built, well sealed excavated ponds in my area of Ohio have essentially no or little watershed area and with approximately 34" of rainfall per year the ponds rarely loose more than 12"-18" of water during the summer. Over winter and spring the ponds are usually back to briming full or overflowing via the overflow pipe. The state health department of Ohio now recommends that if the pond is built for DOMESTIC water use, the pond should have no watershed in order to reduce the amount of chemical runoff from the area surrounding the pond.

Ideally when a pond is built, (remember you dig holes and you build ponds), one should create a clay liner or core trench (at least 12 inches thick) throughout the entire basin to optiminally seal the entire basin not just build a dam. The best (and most expensive) pond builders in my area use clay liners (core trenches) 8ft-10 ft thick for excavated ponds. Their ponds very seldom leak. Very often in pond building, you get what you pay for. However, just because you pay a lot of money to have a pond built does not guarantee the pond will be built properly. As always one should get several opinions and estimates and CHECK references when having a pond built. Do your homework it could pay very big dividens and reduce headaches in the long term.

Bottom line, IMO and experience, finding a leak is often more difficult and time consuming that fixing the leak once you know where it is. Also I highly recommend that all those thinking of building a pond or those with pond seepage problems that they purchase the pond building book titled - "Perfect Pond... Want One" by Bob Lusk. See this website for how to order the very educational and informative book. Money very well spent in my opinion.

Well I see one major problem. When I was building the pond and getting ready to use our sheeps foot to compact it my dad stopped me. He said there was no need to compact it that the water would do it over time. I didn't argue because it's his land, equipment and fuel. There was not any real loose areas but it was wheel rolled at best, not properly compacted. Will if ever seal on its own?

I also continue to see bubbles coming up in the same general area of the pond and I think that is where my leak is. Does that sound right?

Thanks for all the great information Bill.

Bubbles could indicate more than "normal" seepage. OR bubbles could mean there is some form of natural gas escaping and bubbling up. One pond near me was built over a old gas well and after 10 yrs a small amount of bubbles still constantly flow to the surface.

"Will if ever seal on its own?" Fathers think they always know best, but in numerous instances fathers can still learn a few things. This may be a learning experience for you and your father. Come back and tell us when the leak or noticable seepage stops. Self sealing leaks are dependent on soil structure where leak occurs.

In my opinion, sheepsfoot rollers are used as pond building insurance. Insurance is not always fool-proof either.

Often in ponds where the leak/s occur higher near the surface as opposed to deeper near the belly of the pond, seepage continues until water level drops to a certain level and then water level seems to stabilize at that level.

Thanks again.