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#11235 08/01/05 08:27 AM
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George,

My strongest congrats! Outstanding job!

And I think you are completely right about the Tilapia in the grow-out pond to provide the forage and control the algae. Its what I am doing also.

Can not wait until fall to begin catching what look to be 3 to 4 pound HSB in main pond. Never expected to have so much fun as it is to try new things. They don't always work, sometimes the failures can be painful, but when it works, man what a feeling.

Way to go George!

#11236 08/03/05 12:36 PM
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Based on the “HSB vs. LMB in small ponds” thread above, my 2006 pond plans are changing.

This thread has run it’s course – so I’m starting a new one below:
HSB Pond

#11237 09/30/05 11:41 AM
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George and ML :

See if this study interestes you. Don't know if it will copy here so I added [url] to front of address and [url] to the end-- use the address minus the 2 url additions copy to search and it should work.

[url]http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2F1548-8675%281999%29019%3C1044%3AFCRTHS%3E2.0.CO%3B2[url]
















#11238 09/30/05 02:03 PM
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EWEST,

I got to the abstract but couldn't get the full article. It is interesting, particularly the part about "largemouth bass relative weight (Wr) decreased significantly following stocking."

I haven't observed that result, but wonder if Tilapia and maybe gizzard shad may be a mitigation factor in my case....but the part about very large BG, both George and I have experienced that and its great! \:\)

I'd say even if I did experience the reduced relative weight of LMB, the HSB are worth it to me...heck reduced relative weight of a fish that won't hit a lure is no impact to me. Thanks much for that reference...and it probably should be pointed out to prospective stockers of HSB.

Now what will RT do to the equation?

#11239 09/30/05 02:33 PM
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ML :
Check your email re HSB and consult with George. ewest
















#11240 02/25/06 06:37 PM
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Thanks for the update George. I love it. Can't wait to get some pictures of my HSB.


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#11241 02/26/06 01:16 PM
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Thanks George. What great pics and healthy fish. I can see the fly rod bending now. \:\)
















#11242 03/04/06 01:33 PM
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I don't know why I can't see those pics above...all I get is an image stating "OOPs, my image for this link is no longer here."

I think I've seen all those pics from George anyway so I won't worry about it.

I wanted to give a report of our HSB growout program from 2005...all the goods and bads.

We stocked out 8000 1.5" HSB in early July in a 3/4 acre pond with the goal of growing them to 6"-8" or larger for stocking in new and existing ponds. The reason for 6"-8"s and larger was to minimize possible predation in ponds with existing lmb, etc.

We fed the fish twice daily with a 40%+ protein diet from Burris/Cargill.

Had one incident of planktonic bluegreen algae that was finally controlled with the use of microbial formulations.

Tilapia were introduced, by accident, and ended up occupying much of the pond after one spawn.

We have estimated 60% survival rate for HSBs, which I hear is fair according to Mike Freeze at Keo Fish Farm in Arkansas. He figured that the main reason for reduced survival rate was due to the presence of natural forage (baby tilapia) which allowed a portion of the HSBs to grow out quickly and enable them to cannibalize smaller HSBs that were left behind.

So for those of you that bought HSBs from us this fall and winter, you know for a fact that you got the better of our batch...as the runts probably were eaten in our grow-out pond.

Fish sizes in late fall ranged from 5"-6" up to 11", but most of the fish were in the 6"-8" range.

George Glazener encouraged us to begin this program, based on his observations and obvious demand. As far as I know, we are the only fish farm in Texas producing their own advanced size HSB fingerlings. We want to thank George, the pond boss members, and the folks that bought our HSBs. We will continue this HSB growout program in 2006, with the same goal...just more fish.


It's ALL about the fish!
#11243 03/04/06 07:19 PM
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The rest of the story……

At the beginning of this thread I recounted my journey for hybrid stripers and the mistake I made in initial stocking of fingerling HSB that were victims of LMB predation, and my efforts and failure to locate adult size HSB stockers.

In the meantime I became acquainted with Bruce Condello when he fished with me on Lake Texoma for striped bass.
Bruce’s objective was to catch big striped bass – mine was to pick his brain about “growing out” large enough HSB stripers to escape predation.

It was a great day on the lake with a new found friend and a successful fishing trip – Bruce caught some nice stripers and I learned a LOT about “growing out” HSB fingerlings.

Now Todd enters the picture.
Early last year I purchased HSB stockers from Overton Fisheries and was impressed with their operation, so I asked if I could return for a tour of their operation.

A few weeks later, my wife and I were extended an invitation to stop by their place for a visit, and tour their hatchery and fish farm operation. Todd and Kathy's hospitality was much appreciated, and a great learning experience and an introduction to fish farming.

WOW…!
A fish hatchery with 30 ponds on 50 acres.

The light bulb flashed on and ideas were born to encourage Todd to “grow-out” large HSB.

As a satisfied customer, I am pleased to read Todd’s report on a successful HSB season.

My thanks to both Bruce and Todd for their help to achieve a HSB pond fishery.

George Glazener
N.E. Texas ¼ and 2 acre ponds

#11244 03/04/06 08:12 PM
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Cudos George! That's great!!


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If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
#11245 03/07/06 07:13 PM
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 Quote:
Originally posted by george:
The rest of the story……
Bruce caught some nice stripers and I learned a LOT about “growing out” HSB fingerlings.
I definitely got the best of that deal.


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#11246 03/07/06 08:03 PM
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Welcome back, Bruce. We missed ya. I look forward to the day I finally get to meet my favorite Nebraskan.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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#11247 03/07/06 08:04 PM
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Larry the Cable Guy!


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Bump...
Finally found the thread I was looking for...:)

Last edited by george1; 12/28/07 05:52 AM.


N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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Here's some information on a study that was done in Nebraska. I don't know, but Eric may be able to find the text. Essentially what it says is that HSB aren't eating young walleye, and that they eat different sizes of prey fish than walleye or white bass. The general conclusion was that you can stock HSB without fear that you will ruin other gamefisheries.

North American Journal of Fisheries Management-Volume 27 Issue 1 (Feb 2007)

“Interactions among Three Top-Level Predators in a Polymictic Great Plains Reservoir”
Nathan W. Olson, Christopher S. Guy and Keith D. Koupal

Abstract—After the introduction of hybrid striped bass (white bass Morone chrysops × striped bass M. saxatilis) into Harlan County Reservoir, Nebraska, gill-net catch per unit effort (CPUE) of walleyes Sander vitreus appeared to decline while that of white bass remained stable. This result prompted the question of whether these three species can be managed collectively in reservoir ecosystems. However, despite the frequency with which these three popular sport fishes coexist in Great Plains reservoirs, we are unaware of any studies that evaluate resource overlap among them. Therefore, we compared their diets, diet overlap, isotopic composition, vertical distribution, and vertical overlap in Harlan County Reservoir from June to September 2002 and 2003. All three species consumed similar prey (i.e., gizzard shad Dorosoma cepedianum and Chironomidae), and diet overlap was high (i.e., Pianka's index > 40) during all months. On no occasion did all three predators consume the same sizes of gizzard shad. Hybrid striped bass consumed larger gizzard shad than white bass did in September 2002 and 2003, whereas white bass consumed smaller gizzard shad than walleyes and hybrid striped bass did in August 2002 and 2003. Stable isotope analysis corroborated the diet analysis and indicated that all three species occupied the same trophic level and that each predator derived carbon from a similar prey source. White bass were consistently located within the upper 3 m of water, whereas the vertical distribution of hybrid striped bass and walleyes varied from the surface to 10 m deep. Spatial overlap was therefore not as high as dietary overlap and was variable among species and months. Although diet overlap was high, resource partitioning (i.e., different feeding locations and different sizes of gizzard shad eaten) reduced the negative interactions among the three predators. Therefore, we conclude that concurrent management of these three sport fishes is feasible in highly productive reservoirs similar to the one in this study.

Just so you know, I lifted this information from a thread on another fishing forum. It's called NEFGA, and it has some really good contributors.

Last edited by Bruce Condello; 02/09/08 10:50 AM. Reason: Give credit where credit is due...

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We like them much better than LMB because they fight so darn well! Also, since they are grown in the oven like environment around palm springs CA, they should do well just about anywhere.

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Originally Posted By: george
Based on the interest shown by the number of threads on Hybrid Striped Bass recently, I want to share my one year experience with HSB.

Our 3 year old, two acre pond is located in N.E. Texas.

As an avid striped bass fisherman of many years and an occasional HSB fisherman on local lakes, I am very familiar with the sporting potential of this species, especially on fly tackle.

Our original stocking plan consisted of the recommended numbers of Largemouth Bass, Coppernose Blue Gill, RedEar Sunfish, and Channel Catfish.

HSB were not considered at that time since the state biologists I consulted said they would likely not survive, but I proceeded to do further research from Pond Boss archives.

I could find no one in our area with HSB experience and I know dozens of pond owners.
They primarily manage for LMB or catfish, or both.

I consulted with Keo Fish Farms, which I found to be the experts, and most helpful in guiding me to suppliers that might be able to help.

Bill Cody was very helpful in providing aeration advise and products.
Greg Grimes provided automatic feeder information and high protein fish food information.

About this time last year we began our HSB program, having attained a well balanced population of our original stockers.

We stocked 100, 4-6 inch fingerlings, after installing a bottom membrane diffuser aeration system, an automatic Stren fish feeder with a supply of AquaMax high protein fish food.

I was alarmed immediately when the LMB began exploding upon a few of the newly released fingerlings and concluded that perhaps it was a bad idea after all, so proceeded to plan for a good fishing pond for family and friends.

As time went on we observed some feeding activity on the outskirts of feeder pattern and thought maybe some fingerlings survived, and when spring arrived we observed “silver streaks” when feeding.

Everything in my tackle box was tried and failed to catch and nothing worked, and again perceived failure.

When cooler weather arrived we observed violent feeding activity and the grandkids were getting their lines broken more often.

My wife was also getting her leader broken when fishing a small popper.

The rest of the story:

I spent a couple of very enjoyable mornings and evenings on the pond last week and I got broke off using a 5# leader on a 5wt fly rod, while fishing a fairly large popping bug.

I changed from landing as if a bluegill to playing the fish out in open water, and landed my first HSB!
11 inches – ¾ pound on spring scale.

We have no idea how many fingerlings survived, but will soon stock an additional 50 fingerlings. I have read 15-20 HSB per acre with a good feeding program is recommended. If we have too many will take some for table fare.

I’m looking forward to some real fighters in the future and excited about the “perceived” success of our program.

By sharing this experience, I hope it may help shorten the path to a successful HSB fishery for others.

Excuse the length of the post.
George Glazener


Wow I found this old post by searching yahoo and found it very informative!! Just wanted to say thanks for all the great info on this post!! As I am going to be starting to feed and introduce 6 to 8, 8 inch HSB this April in my pond myself and just wanted to say thanks for sharing it all it should no doubt make my expierence much more positive.

Last edited by RC51; 01/31/12 12:38 PM.

The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Yes Bruce I can get the study but the abstract hits the high points. In addition there are several extensive studies out of NC on ponds and HSB. That info is here in one or more threads. I do think HSB compete for food with other fish but not to a large extent especially in ponds with supp feeding.
















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Well it's posts like this one that make this site so awesome! The very wealth of information I just got from this post is crazy sweet! Thanks to everyone on this post about this subject! And like you said Eric, I am only 20 miles from Keo fish farm where all they do is raise HSB. This is a no brainer try for me! I am excited!

thanks,


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Wish us luck we bought 7,000 fingelrings from KEO back in september. They are now up to avg 4.5 inches. We hope raising them in "our water" with lower hardness and then introducing to GA clients the success will be better.

I just hope I dont lose my tail. Anyone wanting some let us know we hope to harvest in May at 8 inches.


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Good luck Greg, I would think there are plenty of Georgians who would love to get those fiesty fish.

RC good luck to you also on your stocking of HSB, I wanted to try them last year but couldn't find anyone around here that had them live, the one place that did have them only sells them as food cause of problems with NYDEC.



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Greg give me a call.
















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Greg, that is a great idea to get them used to softer waters so they do better for your clients. I really think it will make a huge difference in their survival rates. I surely hope you don't loose your tail!

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Originally Posted By: Greg Grimes
Wish us luck we bought 7,000 fingelrings from KEO back in september. They are now up to avg 4.5 inches. We hope raising them in "our water" with lower hardness and then introducing to GA clients the success will be better.

I just hope I dont lose my tail. Anyone wanting some let us know we hope to harvest in May at 8 inches.

Greg, that sounds like a conversation Todd Overton and I had a number of years ago - you'll do well!!!
Your clients are in for some knuckle bustin' line stretchin' fun! cool
Good luck!!!



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Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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Thanks Fellas. Being 2 hrs away makes it tough to check fish often. We will try some marketing but most do not realize the fun. I will have to have clients call you George. Eric call you Monday. Already talking with Scott.


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
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