Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site 2009 Project of the Year Award!!!

9. Storm Shelter

After the town of Greensburg, KS was all but destroyed (90%) by a tornado, my dad began thinking about a place to hide during a severe storm. They say, "you can run, but you can't hide". In the case of a tornado, "you can't run, but you can hide". So if the big one hits, and we're at the farm, we'll hide.......

Here are some photos of Jerry Donner and Company setting in the storm shelter, which they built for us.

i just read this thread, dittos to all the envious kudos above, and thanks alot for sharing this story scott, very impressive.

i hope you find great resources here to help keep things going with the fish and water quality.

Thanks, Dave. Yes, fish and water quality is very important to us. We've found the web site and magazine invaluable. Mike Otto came up to Kansas and helped us design it, and Shawn Banks is our pond consultant. We've made various blunders, but I guess it's part of the process. As far as tree planting goes, I'd rather not start a post, as our survival rate is less than 10%......... Scott

Wow! Mike Otto and Shawn Banks! That's like starting a basketball team with LeBron James and Kobe Bryant.

Nice job. I'm really enjoying the photo show. First class all the way.

10. Fun - the aftermath

Family gatherings, birthdays parties, boys weekends, etc, etc, etc,.....

Scott:

Ain't it amazing the things a person (or family) can find to simply waste away the hours around a pond? I find myself hanging out all summer long, just STANDIN' AROUND.

My wife constantly tells me to just slow down...relax. She finally sees why I built our two ponds. That's the only place where I can actually just sit around and soak it all in.

REALLY cool that you are able to share in this fantastic playground with your kids AND your dad.

Congrats...beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Scott -

You mentioned having issues with tree survival rates. Sometimes we learn best by learning what NOT to do, so do you mind sharing with us why you believe you had such a low (I believe you mentioned 10%) survival rate?

I will be planting about 500 native bareroot trees (seedlings) this spring, so I am knee deep in research on the subject... and apreciate any input you might have.

Matt- agreed. I'll just drive to the farm to be there for one or two hours. My dad will go down there and trim trees. He loves it. It's about a 40 minute drive door-to-door. When I'm there, I just de-stress and wind down.........wierd that trimming trees is fun and relaxing, but it's true!

Scott

Weissguy- OK... Here is a text book example of what NOT to do.

IDEA:

We bought approximately 400 bare root seedlings from Kansas State University. They all arrived perfect. We then proceeded to try to plant all 400 in a single weekend (or two). We invited friends to the farm for the ‘tree planting’ party. Great on paper, not so good in practice.

Some were planted too deep and some not deep enough (roots exposed). Apparently, with seedlings you have to be precise with the depth when planting. Lots of the planting took place around where the lake shoreline had been dug out and it was pure topsoil. Weeds overtook these areas, thus crowding out the seedlings. We didn’t have the resources or time to water any of the trees. Seemed like a good idea to purchase 400 trees since they were so cheap………….or were they?



RESULT:

Most trees died. Only the ‘A’ Alphas made it. All pines died. Cottonwoods lived provided they had 100% sun and a water source near. The cottonwoods that had both water and sun, but were surrounded by weeds/tall grass died. A few (the A trees) made it, but had to fight so hard to get above weeds that they are so flimsy and tall they need to be staked/tied down.

We had really good luck with the Bald Cypruss on the islands. We kept the grass mowed and they found water, as we planted them around the edges. They are doing really well (80% survival).

Also, the eastern red cedars have done really well. They haven’t grown much, but have managed to live despite being engulfed in the grass/weeds.

MOVING FORWARD:

Last year we planted 10 trees. This year we are going to plant 20.

We’re buying less and giving more care. No weeds. Water source.

The trees don’t take a ton of work, but require some. We gave the initial 400 none.

It seems so basic, but we overlooked it.

Scott

Scott -- have you run into that "fabric" technique for tree planting? That really keeps out the weeds and grass. You still need water, but at least you don't have to cultivate.

Scott, that reminds me of something an arborist once told me. It is better to plant a 50 cent tree in a $5 hole than it is to plant a $5 tree in a 50 cent hole.

I drove this weekend from N. Oklahoma to Ft. Riley, Kansas this weekend (hope you all felt safer, I was on Army Reserve Duty!). I was actually surprised myself to see that there is a lot of rock around KS, topsoil is only a foot deep or so and the old farms all have stone foundations and/or buildings on them. Even some really old stone walls are still around.

I also tried the "mass planting" method. I might still have one or two trees out of 5-600 attempts. I am going to try fewer trees of better quality this year, that I can focus on and baby along.

Dave- we tried the fabric technique to kep weeds out, but the black fabric got hot and fried lots of the trees. The muclh blew off the plastic and left it exposed.

Scott

Svoberts- we're located in the far eastern part of the state where there is way less rock. The central and southeatern part of the state by Fort Riley is in the Flint Hills which is much rockier. They also get far less rain.

11. Spillway
I forgot to add pictures of the spillway. It has an 18 inch pipe. Additionally, there is a 6 inch pipe with a hand lever to let water out of the pond if it needs to be drained. We currently have been using this feature a lot. We keep lowering the level of the pond (approximately four feet) so we can pour the foundation for the cabin. However, it keeps raining and filling back up! It's been so wet that we can't get the equipment in there to start. The forecast looks good for the next week so we are crossing our fingers.

Finally, a break in the weather! We have lowered the lake four feet and now only 50% of the surface area remains. This was very frustrating as we would lower it and then get rain and it would fill right back up. It took almost a month to get a break in the weather.

Jerry Donner came in and had his team push dirt out even further by creating a mini dam. We want to get the cabin surrounded by as much water as possible (shooting for 90%).

Once that was done, we spent the weekend pumping out the area as there was a small leak in the mini-dam.

Monday, the work started.

The site was then measured, trenches dug, and the foundation poured.

Here is the current status. Scott

A well orchestrated attack. All the right equipment. A very impressive and ambitious plan. Well done.
Tell us more about the foundation plan. Stuff like: Will all the footers be below the normal pool elevation; is the plan to pour walls that reach above the emergency spillway elevation and then frame up from there; what are going to be supported by the stepped footers?

Brettski-
We're going to put a 5' deck surrounding the cabin. Deck level is 3ft above spillway and around 1’ 10” above emergency spillway. The width of the emergency spillway is double or triple normal. The foundation walls range from 8 ft to 3ft with about 60% at the three foot height. All footers are below normal pool elevation and the foundation wall top is 2’6” above normal pool elevation. Foundation work will be finalized tomorrow and that is a big relief. With rain in the forecast, this thing can fill up fast!

OK. Foundation is complete. Once the forms were taken off, we applied a foundation water sealant since the foundation will be in constant contact with water. This crazy goop stuff was like tar. We spent an entire day applying it with rollers and were basically covered from head to toe in the crap. It required about a 1/4 inch layer. Later that night, I called my Dad and asked if he had been in the shower and he responded, "Hell yes"! I then asked if he had any luck getting the stuff off and he responded, "Hell no"!

After the foundation sealant had dried, we brought in Jerry Donner Services for the dirt work. We packed the area where the footers meet the foundation walls with clay on both the inside and outside. We then filled the inside of the foundation with clay and dirt. We will cover the dirt with a few inches of gravel. Tommorow we will continue and hopefully be finished with the dirt work. Then onto the construction of the cabin.

Scott

The lake is now 6" from being full. We finished filling the foundation with clay and gravel. The exterior is packed with clay as well. We are putting a 10' strip of plastic around the side walls and covering it with gravel. We started and almost completed the north wall on Sunday (photo). It was back breaking work, so we're going to recruit some friends to help this weekend with the south wall. We've got a tractor, but it's tough running the gravel out in 5 gallon buckets 10'. We're also going to run the 10' gravel strip from the cabin to our gravel beach (about 50 yards). SHould be good for wading out and also bluegill spawning areas.

The center beam has been placed on the foundation. Thursday, our builder is going to begin putting in the floor joists. They are going to hang over the exterior of the foundation 5 feet so we can put a deck on it.

Scott

Hoorah! Nothing like seeing some LVLs getting placed that close to water!

Scott,
This project really intrigues me. Thanks for the progress pics and reports.
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I don't want to ASSume anything, but is there a sump pit to remove any possible seepage?

Scott
You and your dad have done a great job. Thanks for the pic. and follow ups. The story usually goes like this. The lake will be here long after the house is gone BUT NOT THIS TIME.

Otto

Thanks Mike. You gave us some good ideas and guidance. We truly appreciate you coming up.

Lyle & Scott