Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Rehabbing Mr. H's small pond

I have gotten permission to rehab my neighbors pond. Since I don't have any experience I won't be getting paid for my labor. I'm doing it for the education and also because Mr. H is a great neighbor and I owe him favors.

The goal for this pond is trophy Green Sunfish. I have explained the common wisdom about GSF to Mr. H, and he is willing to give it a try. He has grandchildren that should enjoy the Greens if we can maintain some decent size.

EDIT: Since beginning this project I've learned that Green Sunfish aren't native to our area. Warmouth are native and they are very similar in looks and behavior so I will substitute them for GSF.

BASIC INFO:

*Pond size = 1/5 acre (edit: less than 1/10 acre) at full pool.

*10 ft at the deepest, maybe 6 ft average.

*Pond is about 12 years old.

*Fed by runoff from cattle pasture and Pecan orchard. The watershed is about 15 acres (rough guess)

*The pond would have regular outflow events in normal weather, but hasn't in many months.

*Muck is present at 1 - 2 feet in the deepest area.

THE WATER:

*Current level is 5 ft below full due to drought.

*Water clarity looks about right (will take measurements).

PLANT LIFE:

*The pond has a bad watermeal problem.

*I haven't seen any plant life except for the watermeal.

ANIMAL LIFE:

*I don't believe previously stocked fish have survived.

*There are some frogs and tadpoles

STRUCTURE/HABITAT:

*The pond is steeply rimmed.

*I don't believe any structure has been added (excepting the dock pilings).

*It doesn't look to me like there are many/any good spawning sites at full pool. For now there are plenty of shallow areas, but there's at least 1 foot of muck.

ACTIONS TAKEN:

*I will be ordering this aeration system: http://www.aerationtechnologies.net/lakepondaeration/airpodone.html

*I will be treating watermeal with Sonar AS, and will skim it initially.

STOCKING:

GSF will be transfered from Mr. H's 7 acre pond. At this point there are no plans for adding any larger species. I'm guessing that stocking BG would work against the goal of trophy GSF due to competition and overcrowding.

FORAGE/FEEDING:

I will be stocking Mosquito fish. I plan on collecting other small indigenous fish for diversity and forage. Mr. H and family are willing to hand feed pellets.

QUESTIONS:

1. Is there a species of minnow that seems to fit best into this environment?

2. What additional fish structure would you recommend?

3. How would you improve the spawning structure? I have access to plenty of old tractor tires and pallets.

4. Does it make sense to section off an area with netting as a place for gams or other minnows to safely breed? Should/could I raise some in a fine meshed cage?

Many more questions to come.

Here's a link to the Green Sunfish Pond thread. This thread references Mr. H's pond also, but is intended as a general discussion about the possibilities of raising trophy GSF .






EDIT: Late Feb. 2008 - The Fathead minnows stocked last October have multiplied to many thousand fish. Recently I began stocking adult Warmouth which I've been collecting from Mr H's big pond. So far the sizes have ranged from 3" to 7" and the total is 6 fish.

Today I applied 8 oz of Sonar AS, and I have a gallon of Reward on the way to do the edges.

I installed the fish corral in the big pond and will start collecting as soon as possible. Since I've discovered that GSF are not indigenous to this area and Warmouth are, I'm changing the goal to trophy WM. There are WM in the big pond so I won't have to go far.

The wind had blown the watermeal to one side so I walked around the bank to see what I could see.

I saw a crawdad so that might explain all the holes around the bank, and the coon prints. I also netted a few frogs and tadpoles.

Sounds like a good start !!

The wind was up again this morning and I couldn't resist the urge to remove some watermeal by hand. It's so small that it will pass through the skimmer mesh, but if you go slowly you'll get most of it.

Hopefully the Sonar will stop new plants from replacing the stuff I removed. If not, at least I got some decent exercise.

I took out 4 boxes like this one, each weighing about 100lbs. That's a quarter in the photo for reference.



Green enough for ya?

Y'all are set to whip up some DIY, imitation Soylent Green!

We installed the aeration system today. I believe Mr. H was happy to see some progress on the small pond. His big pond is beautiful, but it's this little one that he sees everyday because it's just behind his house.

I put some markers on the dock piling showing approximate full pool and then down in 1 foot sections. If I'm right about the levels then we're 58 inches low. Well, it's supposed to rain a lot over the next few days so we'll see what happens.

Today I sprayed Reward around the banks and onto the thicker areas of watermeal on the pond surface.

While the pond is so low I want to do something about the absence of structure and the lack of spawning beds. Mr. H is like most people who have been farming for 50 years, he has a good supply of "surplus materials". For one thing he's got several old tractor tires and some car tires too.

I'm thinking that the best place for spawning might be the far end in this photo.



If you look at the far side of the pond in this pic you can see a patch of weeds just up from the waterline. This area is fairly flat, about 150 Sq feet, and will be 4 feet deep at full pool. Would 3 or 4 tractor tires full of sand do the trick?

Or, would it make more sense to leave the pond without much spawning area to help control fish numbers?

Does it all depend on something? (joke)

It's been less than a month since I treated with Sonar AS. These pics show the progress:

BEFORE


AFTER

If Mr. H's appearance had improved as much as his pond's, you might be at risk of losing Cindy.

Well, I haven't noticed any changes in Mr. H's appearance, but Cindy has commented on how spry he is at 85.

I'm going to start working out.

I haven't done anything with Mr. H's pond in quite a while so here's where I'm at. At the end of July the watermeal was 99% gone and the water was murky with suspended clay. Drywall cleared up a sample, but I plan on liming the pond first to see if that will clear it up. Here's a pic I took at the end of July:



I was a little worried because the tadpoles seem to be at the surface trying to get oxygen. There are still no fish yet so I let it go.

A little more than a week ago I checked it out and we had a significant algae bloom and the watermeal had made a slight comeback. I decided to wait a few days and then maybe add more Sonar.



As of a few days ago the algae is still going strong, but there is less watermeal. I'm wondering if the algae used up enough nutrients to cause the watermeal to decline.

Now that the algae is blooming it seems like visibility is a little better at about 12 inches. Could the algae bloom have helped clear the suspended clay?

Maybe I should have waited but I ordered 700 FH (5 lbs) to be shipped tomorrow. Is there any reason to think they'll do well in this pond? I'm hoping for a FH spawn this fall to feed the WM that I'll be tranfering from Mr. H's other pond.

Assuming enough O2 the FH will do fine. Even better if you throw them a few pellets once in a while. FH do fairly well in low DO (as compared to LMB). DW and WM have a survival method called turions. They are like dormant seeds in the pond bottom. They stay there until an event kills off the surface plants allowing light or warmth to the bottom. At that point they float up ( buoyed by it is believed CO2 from anaerobic respiration) and start the process all over. That is why you often have to treat more than once with a systemic product that stays in the water a while. You need to put some spawning structure (pallets for example) for the FH to spawn under in shallow water (3 ft or less).

I stocked 5 lbs of Fatheads today.

FULL STORY HERE

It's been 11 days since I posted the above pic of the intense green algae bloom.

Sept 17:


Here is the color today:


Does this indicate an improvement of the water quality? Are the recently stocked FH going to be better off at this stage?

It had been recommended early that I lime this pond due to low alkalinity. Is there any reason not to do it now based on this algae bloom?

I can't tell for sure if this represents an improvement in water quality. It probably does, if what we're seeing is a decrease in overall numbers of single-celled algae or a decrease in numbers of bluegreens (cyanobacteria). What you're seeing could however be an algae "bust" cycle, which would mean temporary loss of available oxygen in the pond. I'm just now recently learning what this means. Does the water smell funny in any way?

Now that you mention it I noticed a "pondy" smell today, but it was very subtle and not unpleasant. I tend to notice smells more than the average person. Maybe it's a chef thing.

To me it looks less phytoplanktony and more zooplanktony.

Here's where a DO meter would come in handy. Too bad they can't come up with something cheaper that we could all afford for that. I wouldn't risk any expensive fish on a pond that had experienced a sudden color shift, particularly in the fall, but FHM and other forage items wouldn't be that big of a deal. In my experience fatheads are the most difficult fish to evaluate during a die-off. Most other bigger fish will have a floater or two, but fatheads can virtually disappear without a trace.

Take note of my avatar picture--I've earned some stripes with fish kills.

The water has been looking good for the past few months and the FH are into their second spawn after the initial one in the fall. They have been the only fish in the pond until today when I stocked the first Warmouth. I caught the WM from Mr. H's big pond and hopefully it will survive the move. Food won't be scarce with many thousands of plump Fathead minnows as pond mates!

I hope to get enough WM into the small pond to allow them to spawn this spring. I'm not sure about the timing or if the move will disrupt them.

We've had a few good rains this spring and the pond has gone from over 5 feet below full pool to just 15 inches low. 2 nights ago we got 3 inches.

(If you look closely you can see the FH minnows at the surface.)


Fathead adults and fry:

How big was the warmouth? Did you tag him?

The WM was 6 inches long and I didn't tag it. The reason I decided not to tag is that this pond will be effected by other people to a large extent. I expect that Mr. H and his family will want to fish and enjoy the pond without worrying about record keeping etc. I think the most I'll try to do is to set up a slot limit at some point.

This will mostly be a "kids" pond. It shouldn't matter that the main "kid" is 85 years old, right?

Very cool GW. I look forward to seeing how this goes.

Very nice.

So all the warmouth are coming from the other pond?

Yes Gambusia, the initial stock will probably be from Mr. H's big pond although he and his family have two or three other ponds also. I usually fish his big pond because it's not near his or his son's house so I don't bother anyone. I may try fishing in the nearby creek at some point to see if I can broaden the gene pool some.

I would love to trap some very small WM if I can be sure of a good ID when they're small. I would really like to keep any Bluegill out of this little pond since Mr. H has agreed with the idea of not stocking Bass. I'm pretty sure it would soon be filled with tiny BG if they get in there. I suggested going without Bass for the same reason of stunting, and anyway, how many good sized Largemouths could live in very small pond? I've been calling this pond a 1/10 acre, but I think it's really smaller than that.

My new little pond is downstream of this pond and I'm planning on managing it the same as this one. That makes me hope even more that BG and Bass don't end up in there. So many ponds around here have stunted Bass and Brim and I hope to make a few exceptions. There are also Crappie in Mr. H's big pond and my biggest fear is that some will get into his small pond (and then mine). It sure is a shame that Specs (Crappie) don't do well in small ponds!

Mr. H said something about Redear Sunfish yesterday. What do you all think about a WM/RES pond.

Also I'm wondering if the Fatheads might survive in this pond if the Sunfish population is kept fairly light.