Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Randy's pond

Ok, here I go. I have been looking for property for a few months, saw a piece that I liked on 10/25, and we closed on 11/16. There is a flat area in the valley that looks good for a pond. Water source is run-off and a spring-feed creek that originates about 500 yards West of my property and runs right thru the middle of my property. Even though we are in a terrible drought, this little stream is still moving. I want to build the pond so the stream flows into and out of the pond - this will bother some people, but please let me know what you think. The pond will have pipes and a good spillway, if there is too much water. I bought the property from the next door neighbor (he has two nice ponds that are fed by this same stream). Enough water should not be a problem. Also, too much or too little dirt & clay will not be a problem - I have a big hill overlooking this area from which we can take clay. My neighbor and his brother (builds lakes for a living) are doing the work. The pond will cover about 1A. Eric asked about my goals. I would like to have big BG, a few larger same-sex LMB for population control, and some GSF. No cats and no crappie. Plenty of FHM and Gams. I am open to suggestions. How about HSB instead of LMB? That's all for now. Please give me your thoughts. I realize that I have probably already made some mistakes, but it'll all work out.
Oh by the way there is a nice little 3/2 house that came with this, but nobody cares about that - let's talk about ponds!!!
This picture is taken from the back deck. The area where the pond will be is about
150' down the hill (which drops about 75' in elevation). Looks like there is a pond there now but it's only dirt. At least for now heeheehee!!!!

Let's get ready to rumble!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, bro. You're my inspiration!!!

- -

I am going to see what others suggest first.

Very nice property Randy. Can you tell us about the general location , type of dirt , and elevation ? The first thing I would do is go collect dirt samples from about 6 spots in the future pond bottom mix them up, let them dry and have the sample analyzed. That will tell you a lot and provide a baseline to work from. Is the spring in limestone ?

Randy just saw this. Congrats and I know your glad to be back in the pond game. Call me if you like. I wil be back form Arizona on TH. I just want to make sure the pond builder neighbors do a few modern type things, siphon not riser pipe, leaving fish habits not making a clean bathtub,etc. good luck!

I'll meet with the pond builders Thur and get more info.

This is a small spring that comes out of the hill a foot or two above where I think
that the water line will be. If not above the water line, we'll pack it with clay, otherwise
we could build a small little forage pond for FHs & Gams.
Eric, I know it's not the time to stock yet, but I'll be waiting for your thoughts.
The property is 50 mile west of Atlanta - just off Interstate I-20 to Birmingham.
Greg, I just sent you a PM.

At the risk of reiterating your thought process, I'll mention this thought anyway. If the spring is indeed below normal pool of the pond, and you don't want it within the pond basin for fear of it reversing, could you build up a small 360 degree dam around the spring? Make the top of this mini-dam 3 feet higher than normal pool of the larger pond and install a trickle tube to feed overflow from this mini-pond. If the spring doesn't fill the mini-pond due to head pressure, you made a good decision to segregate it from the main pond. If it does fill and overflow, you made a good decision and you have your forage pond.
...is this where you were goin' with that post?

Yes sir. My thoughts exactly.

I really like it! Does a mini-pond fed primarily with constant-flow spring water present any water quality issues pertinent to fish life support? D.O.? Temps?

At this stage all I have to go on is the neighbor's ponds are filled by the water that I will be using and his fish and water look very good. This little spring is barely running now (1-2gpm), but when the drought ends it should pick up a little.
Don't you have a "catch-pond" or something similar running into you pond?

Well, yes and no. Yes, it is a catch-pond (of sorts), but no it's not a spring. It's the end of a very old field tile system that we discovered that ran straight thru our pondsite prior to excavation. We cut it off and fitted it with a riser pipe that spills into a small catch-pond. The idea is to trap some of the field silt and monitor the volume.
-

Looks good - now I remember that thread. That's about the size of the little pond I had in mind. Eventually spilling over into the larger pond. Thanks.

Here's a rough idea of what I've got in mind. The creek flows in from the top left. We'll use the far side of the creek bank as one side. The creek bed is about 3.5' deep with 3-4" of water. Double drain pipe or either a siphon system & spillway. One area of the pond will be about 10-12', and most of the rest 6-8'. Small island in middle. Another spring in the bottom right (hope to make small forage pond there). Elevated dirt drive down left side. Another small spring on upper left side will be routed into creek. Even though we are in this drought, I am a little concerned about too much water. The pond could be moved away from creek, and used just for filling. More later.

Randy talk to the neighbors and see if they can give you info on volumes of water to expect (how long it takes to flow through or exchange the water in the pond). Ponds with quick flow through/exchange can make for fertility problems in low productivity lands. Because of the large water volumes it can be difficult to add enough lime or fertilizer to maintain productivity if the soils otherwise require supplementation. That plus soil info will give you some idea of the expected fertility of the pond. Do your neighbors ponds that the creek flows through get and keep a plankton bloom in the summer. These types of info will help in estimating what productivity or fertility to expect. Based on that you can change plans if needed to meet your goals.

Other than a few foreign fish types and productivity/fertility questions the creek should be manageable as long as you can make the spillway/control structure sufficient to meet max creek flow. Over engineer the spillway/control structure just in case they underestimate max creek flow.

Logistically speaking, if you choose to incorporate the original creek into the pond, how would you do so if the stream flows year round?

I would imagine that you would leave the creek flowing in it's original path, and then carve out the rest of the pond. Then when the time is right, break an access for the creek to flow into the new bowl. But how would you address the berm between the original creek bed and the newly carved out bowl?

I like the idea of having the creek flow directly into the pond, but as ewest said, you have to know if you'll have fertile enough water.

Then there's also the issue of rough fish that can get into the pond via the stream, if there's any rough fish in the stream. For this issue, I think you have to decide how tightly you want to control the pond's fish population.

If you were going for strict management of species, this may not be the way to go.

Great sketch!!!

Eric & Sunil, that's why y'all make the big bucks!!! The fertility issue might be a problem, and the spillway will be given a lot of attention. Sunil, the man on the trackhoe will be within the banks of the the pond. After everything is finished inside the pond, we will block the creek about 20' left of unfinished dam. The dam will be finished and the water will be released from the temporary dam, and routed into the 10-12' deep section of the pond. Trackhoer will take down the berm, work his way back up the creek to the first place where the creek joins the pond, and then exit stage left. He can take down the 100+' of berm in an hour - looks aren't a concern and a few humps and rough spots would be good. Don't be concerned about us rushing to finish the dam or the rising creek - it would take 6-8 hours for the creek to back up over its bank (the berm). As for the trash fish, since we are so close to the beginning of the spring, I don't think that they will be a problem. Honestly, I will not be managing this real tightly, and will be happy with just about any critter that shows up.
Thanks again.

So Randy, would you say that there will be a creek channel that runs through the pond, or will the exisiting bottom of the creek be above the bottom of the new pond?

The creek channel will still be there, but only in it's dreams, The creek will flow into the end of the pond, and what was the old creek bed will be the bank on one side.
Visualize the creek as 3' deep and running from left to right between the 10 and 15 yard line from sideline to sideline at Happy Valley. Starting at the left hash-mark on the 15 yard line, dig everything out between the 15 & the 50 yard line. That's my plan.... Does that make sense? Don't get me confused.......

Forgive this if it's a stupid question, Randy (maintaining continuity on threads has been a problem for me lately ), but is this particular creek bank OK for holding water on the side of a pond? I can see on some situations where a creek bank might not make a suitable pond bank, leakage-wise.

And let me add to the list of questions...

The way I'm envisioning this is that the existing elevation of the creek bed (as it is today), will be above the elevation of the new pond basin.

I guess I'm thinking that the full-pool mark of the new pond will be close to the elevation of the creek bed (as the creek bed sits today).

I'd better pull out my Etch-A-Sketch.

REVISED #2
Theo, thanks for the nudge. Changes are being made.
Sunil, you're right.
We are going to leave the creek where it is, clean it up and compact the far side and build a levee between it and the pond. The creek will only be about 3' deep and 4-5' wide, but a part of the pond - just not near as deep. The levee gives us a place to put extra dirt (there is alot), allow vehicles more access, and will look better than the old creek bank, and cut down on possible leakage. Also, I think it might be a place that some of the minnows can go and reproduce in more safety than in the pond. The spillway has been moved, and we are going to use two 24" pipes for normal drainage. The little spring-fed forage pond in bottom right has been nixed, but we are going to add a small little cove (1-2') near the dock. "A" is going to be a little shed that will give the well pump and little protection and hold odds and ends (fish food etc). There is power there now.
That's all for now. Thanks for your input.

Eric, my neighbor said that his pond keeps good color, and he has only had real high water once (15 years ago). The water flows thru constantly (even as we speak), it is slow moving - but with our water situation in GA that's amazing

Randy, any news since you last diplayed your Picasso above?

Yes, thanks for asking. We finished the pond just ahead of the rains. In fact, we really needed about two more days because much dirt didn't get moved away, and it's still piled up on the west side of the pond. It looks kind of ugly, but I'll take care of it when all dries out this spring/summer. We reached fullness on 1/1/08, and I have about 30 gpm coming in via creek and leaving by drain pipe. The pond is still muddy (6" vis), but should be ok eventually. Got a little grass coming up, but still a lot of exposed dirt and projects to do. Sunil, you'll be proud - I added some FHs and about 100 4" HBG. The little creek area behind the levee is going to be a good place to grow FHs. I put 4#s back there and blocked it off with a net. That's all for now, I'll add some pictures soon.

Hurry up, man! I wanna see!
-
(edit); did the dock make it in, too?

Man, talk about playing one close to the vest. Great news though! I'll call Burger and let him know you did the right thing. I hope you have stocking pictures too. I want to see what the HBG looked like.