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Al think about a few all male tilapia from Todd. George does that with good success. Keep the BG #s low and add a few LMB 8-10 in. if there are no predators already. Keep those pumps ready to repeat what you are doing.
















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We were starting to get that problem 2 years ago. The FA was taking over and I did not want to use chemicals to kill it as we swim in the pond and so do our dogs. At the suggestion of my pond man, Scott Trava (http://CatskillPond.com) Last year in late May once the runoff stopped we used pond dye for the first time. Between that and aeration we had no FA at all last summer. This while we had a severe drought that brought our water level down at least 2 feet from the spill way. I planned to do the same thing this spring and hope for the same success against the FA.

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Tuzz how are your fish doing ?
















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Anyone ever used one of these?
http://www.solarranch.com/spbubbly.html
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"Each day as the sun rises in the east, the PV module sends power to the aerator pump which in turn delivers air through an air hose to the one-way valve located at the bottom of the tank. The air is bubbled up from the bottom of the tank or pond throughout the day until the sun sets in the evening."
_________________________________________________________________
The bloom is back! No elec. available at this pond. Looking for options.

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Al, interesting deal. However, oxygen demand is less during the day than at night or early in the morning. This sucker shuts off at night when plants start sucking oxygen. I like the idea of solar if you could store enough energy (batteries) for it to run 24x7.


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Dave, you're quicker than I at replying to that.

How far is the nearest power location? 1 mile, 2 miles, several hundred feet?

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Dave that's why I quoted, It's cheap enough to give a try. I hadn't thought about batteries also? My thinking is "better than nothing"?
Cary it's just under a mile. Underground won't work, has to cross a creek. Windmill is a no, low spot.
I am pricing wire etc to run to another pond from meter and for 240 service, 700+ ' it's looking like $4g...

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The fish and pond are doing fantastic. Memorial Day weekend we put in 1 1/2 quarts of concentrated "blue/black" die and again there is no FA. Ponds in the area are covered with the stuff right now.
The blue gill just had massive hatch in the past 2 weeks and we are catching brick size blue gill on fly rod with popping bugs.

It is time to warm up the frying pan and take some fish this year for the first time.

I think my pond man really has our pond well tuned.

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Tuzz!! You're back! You need to post more. ;\) Glad to hear you're getting some bricks.


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I went down this same road in 2006. I researched and researched then performed some calculations and had them double checked by some solar guru's on a solar forum. As DD1 said the main issue is that without storing electricity you can only aerate during a relatively sunny day (not at night and probably not on real overcast days). It's been a while since I have performed all the calculations but I can tell you that when you begin to calculate the cost to purchase enough batteries to guarantee enough of a power supply to run several hours at night, enough solar panels to charge said batteries adequately even when you have had several cloudy days, and all of the other related equipment, your cost will increase exponentionally. In 2006 when I performed my calculations, in order to design a system that I could store enough electricity to run a system for 8 hours during the evening, after factoring inverter inefficiency and "average hours of sun" (which varies per location), the system cost ran between $4,000 and $5,000 for the solar system alone (in other words this does not include the aeration portion of the system). Obviously if you calculate the system for less than an eight hour run time it would be less. I don't know if the costs have changed that much or not.

JHAP is not a solar energy expert and did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night. Any advice give by JHAP should probably be ignored or ridiculed. The mere fact that you read JHAP's post and have considered what he has to say makes me question your ability to determine truth from dribble. Perhaps you should consult with someone that actually knows what they are talking about.



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I just love fine print \:D


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Solar panels can be had for $5-7 per watt. You can make a system to aerate that small pond for a few hrs. at night for under a grand.(Including aeration system unless the pond is deep. 8 ft deep, no problem. Look back at some of the solar aeration threads. Add microbes since the water is warm to help get rid of the nutrient load.

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 Originally Posted By: burgermeister
You can make a system to aerate that small pond for a few hrs. at night for under a grand.(Including aeration system unless the pond is deep. 8 ft deep, no problem.


Probably should have added a size disclaimer to my disclaimer.

My pond at 17.5 feet deep (at the deepest) and 3 surface acres required at fairly decent pump to achieve the desired air flow at the necessary psi.

Man if I could have a system for under a grand I'd be a very happy JHAP.

Now I need to work on a disclaimer for my disclaimers.


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Has anyone priced the cost of tubing and figured out if piping air underground or overland would be cheaper than trying to transmit the electric to run a pump?? The thought occurred to me that 1/2" PVC will handle a decent amount of air pressure and would be easy to obtain and install. I have a buddy who runs 150 PSI in his shop using PVC pipe, even with line loss you would have decent air pressure at the end, just a thought.

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It is definitely cheaper to run air in plastic pipe rather than electricity in copper wire. Somewhere around here are the calculations and/or figures to show the pressure loss for (say) 1/2", 3/4", and 1" pipe over distance.

I will be running about 600 feet of air (hopefully) later this year and plan on using 1" black plastic water pipe. It's about 2x the price of 1/2" and 1/3 more than 3/4", but the line loss is much less. And I may be daisy-chaining air through this pipe even further in the (distant) future.


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JHAP is correct with his addemdum. Once you get over about 1cmf at 5 psi needed, the cost of pump and running it escalates rapidly. (I got your back, JHAP.) Didnt mean to knock down your calcs. I am a 'rigger' and was assuming DIY.


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 Originally Posted By: burgermeister
(I got your back, JHAP.) Didnt mean to knock down your calcs. I am a 'rigger' and was assuming DIY.


No problemo Burger. I should have read the thread (hey that rhymes, what's with me and rhyming lately? First my Bruce/Excuse rhyme and now this) all the way through and I would have noticed that Ahvasta's problem pond was smaller.

I am also a DIYer as much as possible. You'd probably be surprised what this old bean counter can do. You know that sounds like it could be a good tv program...."This Old Bean Counter." Probably would have to be a reverse instructional showing what to avoid doing and how to do things the hard way since that is what I'm best at.

I could have already filmed an episode "Trimming Poison Oak in Shorts and T-shirts" that was lots of fun.


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The Poet Laureate of the Green Sun Fish Association has spoken.


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I understand that the low point for DO is early morning but aren't you going to still make a significant difference if you aerate in the daylight hours? Wouldn't you be loading up on oxygen so that as it drops through the night it isn't likely to reach as low a point?

I've always wondered about this. Is it not possible to "load up" on DO?



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GW, Others - ".....but aren't you going to still make a significant difference if you aerate in the daylight hours? Wouldn't you be loading up on oxygen so that as it drops through the night it isn't likely to reach as low a point?"

As always, it all depends. Yes and No. One will probably make a significant difference by aerating during daylight primarly by mixing and adding DO to water depths that would not have had DO naturally due to lack of sunlight getting to the depths or those zones. All surface mixed and light receiving water (euphotic or photosynthetic zone) will usually become saturated with DO during sunlight hours. Unmixed zones of the deep waters and or dark zones have no DO additions once thermal stratification occurs.

But here is the kicker. Water at different temps will only hold so much DO until the water is 100% saturated. Super saturation does occur but the super saturated DO will be quickly lost into the air when the sup saturated water reaches the surface. As water warms the amount of oxygen it can hold DECREASES for it to become saturated. So in increasingly warmer waters the water actually holds less DO at the point of saturation for each increase in temp. Thus trying to supersaturate the water or "load it up" on oxygen beyond the point of 100% saturation does IMO little good. The amount of BOD (biological oxygen demand) of each water body and at each depth zone determines how long the DO will last during the non-photosynthesizing periods.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/28/08 02:33 PM.

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Is it true that most DO related fish kills happen after a few cloudy and/or windless days? Would that mean that reaching the critically low DO levels follows a period where a pond doesn't reach it's saturation point for a few days? Would daytime aeration on those cloudy windless days tend to achieve DO saturation that otherwise would not have been met?

I know there are a lot of variables and therefore no consistent rule, but I'm trying to boil it down to this; How likely is a DO related fish kill in a daytime aerated pond vs the same pond with no aeration at all. What does your windmill/solar money actually buy you? Does anyone know of a daytime aeration pond that had a DO related fish kill?



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GW asks: "Would daytime aeration on those cloudy windless days tend to achieve DO saturation that otherwise would not have been met?" and "How likely is a DO related fish kill in a daytime aerated pond vs the same pond with no aeration at all."

Day aeration on cloudy windless days no doubt helps increase DO in the water toward 100% saturated levels. As I mentioned earlier one of the biggest benefits of day aeration is adding oxygen to the deeper waters beyond the depth of photosynthesis (euphotic zone). The larger and more voluminous the water is below euphotic depth the less likely a fish kill will occur providing the deep water starts off with saturated or near saturated DO. This concept is why deeper ponds are better in the northern snow belt. Everything else being equal, total DO will last longer in a deeper oxygen saturated pond vs the same sized shallower pond. The pond with deeper DO saturated water has a larger "bank account" of DO than the same sized shallow pond.

I'm not sure of the likelyhood or percentages, but deeper DO saturated is much better than shallow DO saturated.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/28/08 09:42 PM.

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