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In the March 2004 issue of In-Fisherman magazine, Larry Cofer, who is an Oklahoma fisheries biologist based at Lawton, wrote a great article about saugeyes. Saugeyes are a cross between walleyes and sauger. In this article, he brought up a number of pros and cons about them in public waters. However, he made some points about them in small lakes. I would like to quote him now.
"Followowing the fish to older ages, the scientists also discovered that big saugeyes ate shad, but those over 18 inches long also had a curious predilection for small crappies when shad were scarce. At first glance, that would seem a nasty habit, but the biologists got the idea of using saugeye to controll stunted crappie populations that are all too common in smaller lakes. In Oklahoma, managers have seen improved crappie propulations in about 2/3 of the lakes where saugeye have been stocked for that purpose."
"Our muddy water in western Oklahoma isn't an issue, and they thrive in some small city lakes that don't look at all like walleye habitat."
Does anyone have any thoughts about this?
Norm Kopecky
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Lunker
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Norm -- the saugeye did a great job of controlling stunted black crappies up at Richmond Lake, near Aberdeen, SD. What used to be a stunted black crappie population with few crappies ever exceeding 8 inches has turned into a population that consistently produces those 10-12 inch black crappies. I'll mail you a copy of that report to you.
The real question, I think, is how well they will do in smaller waters. Thunderbird in Oklhaoma is like 5,000 acres, Richmond in South Dakota is 800 acres, but what happens at 100 acres, 50 acres, or 3 acres. We don't have many success stories on the small waters.
Dave
Subscribe to Pond Boss MagazineFrom Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Norm&Dave, In Oct 2000, I put 30 saugeye (most 7-7.75") into a 3/4acre pond with a moderate summer weed cover and heavy population of perch and minnows/shiners. Last winter shiners disappeared. Perch are still doing very good, minnows seem fairly common, but no evidence of any saugeye. Don't see them, can't catch them. fish in summer, fish in winter. Fished numerous ways; various depths day, evening & at dark. This summer I will fish with 3" perch and see what that produces. I find it hard to believe all saugeyes died. If they are still alive, I find them difficult to catch. I have walleye in another smaller pond and have no trouble catching them.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill, While fishing a bass tourn. last spring at Kentucky lake, I caught 2 saugeyes on a Zoom Brush Hog. It mimics a crawdad, I've read in several magazines that walleye and saugeye's love crawdads. You may have already tried this, but I thought I'd share this with you. Hope it helps.
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Bill-- in Larry Cofer's article, he mentioned two problems with saugeye. The first is that they easily back breed with both parent species. The second problems is that if there is any flowing water over the dam, that they will swim downstream readily and thus leave the lake of origin. The saugeye might not be in your lake any more.
Dave-- from this article, I got the impression that Larry Cofer had tried saugeye in small lakes but that may not be true. A probolem with using them in small lakes is just getting 10-14" fish that would survive predation.
Norm Kopecky
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Well, I hate to do this, but here come a long-winded discussion. :-) I can provide some more background information, although I don’t have all the answers on saugeyes.
Reproduction: It’s an “old wife’s tale” that saugeyes can’t reproduce because they are hybrids. They can backcross with each parent type (walleye and sauger), and they can even breed among themselves. Because of this, we have seen a lot less use of saugeye in recent years among the state fishery management agencies. I think Larry Cofer’s article did a good job of stating the problem. I’m not sure there is a solution.
In a way, this concern over genetics is too bad, as the saugeyes really have been useful. Norm, you mentioned that saugeye move downstream with current, which they certainly do. However, they don’t move as much as pure walleyes. In a lot of muddy, high flow-through reservoirs, it’s about impossible to get a good walleye population established. However, saugeyes have often been very successful in those same impoundments – the Ohio DNR has established a lot of saugeye fisheries where walleyes didn’t work.
Norm – I think Larry Cofer’s article on saugeyes in smaller waters was an overview of a big study that involved 212 water bodies in the mid-1990s. Study lakes were in seven states (IL, IA, KS, NE, ND, OK, and SD), and ranged from about 45 acres to 800 acres. To be honest, results were pretty darn mixed. Saugeyes did often survive where walleyes had not survived, but black crappie, white crappie, and bluegill population quality (i.e., size of fish) did not always increase. One of the best case histories in that overall study was the Richmond Lake effort (I already sent you a copy of that report). As I said in an earlier post, the saugeyes did a fabulous job of controlling crappies there, and we’ve had great crappie fishing for a number of years.
In the other Oklahoma study reported by Cofer, in Thunderbird Lake, it did take larger saugeye (18 inches and longer) to control crappies. However, there are gizzard shad in Thunderbird Reservoir, and they apparently sort of “buffer” the predation on crappies. In our Richmond Lake study, we found that all sizes of saugeye preyed on small black crappies, including some saugeyes less than 8 inches long. They reduced the abundance of the small crappies, decreasing the competition among crappies for available food. As a result, crappie growth rates increased.
Bill – I found your observation on those 7-inch stocked saugeyes to be quite interesting. I am coming to a conclusion that saugeyes may not be as useful in small waters as big waters (although I sure don’t have enough information to be certain of that). In the big reservoir studies in Ohio and Oklahoma, saugeyes generally survived far better than walleyes, and more often than not, grew faster than walleyes (at least over the first several years of life). However, we stocked walleyes and saugeyes in small South Dakota impoundments ranging from about 20 to 100 acres. In one introductory stocking in a new 20 acre impoundment, saugeyes did survive, but not any better than the walleyes stocked at the same time. When we stocked walleyes and saugeyes into the 50-100 acre impoundments with “problem” fish communities, such as stunted bullheads in muddy water, we had very little survival of either predator. At least so far, I just don’t know of any successful cases of using saugeyes in the truly small impoundments. In your case, you certainly stocked them at a big enough size to expect survival. I’m sure they initially had to compete with the yellow perch for food, but at least the perch couldn’t eat them.
One final, general observation. A big saugeye (say a 3 or 4 pounder) is a pretty cool fish. They get “big shoulders,” if you know what I mean. They are really heavy in the body behind the head at this size, as long as they have plenty of prey.
Well, I apologize for the length of this comment. However, I hope it is clear that this is not a simple issue – it is quite complex.
Dave
Subscribe to Pond Boss MagazineFrom Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
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Dave, thanks for the great information on saugeyes. Saugeye are stocked by Ohio DNR in a couple local reservoirs. Savy fishermen really enjoy them. However very few private hatcheries produce them. There is a one acre pond about 40 mi from me that got about 50 saugeye siblings of my fish plus some walleye. I will contact him and see what his success has been with both fish.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Bill,
Can you give the name of a hatchery in Ohio that has saugeyes for sale? Thanks.
Tim
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Tim,
I'm not Bill but the Brandt Trout Hatchery in Newark Ohio may still produce them, but I'm not sure.
Brandt Trout Hatchery 5460 Fallsburg Rd, NE Newark, OH 43055 740-345-8393 Fax: 740-345-0717
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Thank you for the study of Lake Richmond, Dave. For those of us that would like walleyes in our lakes, saugeye might be a better choice. Will saugeye eat bluegills as well as crappie? It seems to me that the biggest problem will be getting the saugeye. Any thoughts about this for northern ponds?
Norm Kopecky
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Cecil,
Thanks for the info. That place is only about 20 minutes from me.
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