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#105866 01/26/08 02:40 AM
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I have had so much trouble finding any winter supplier for tilapia fingerlings that were NOT genetically altered and OUTRAGEOUSLY priced (as high as 35K for 20 breeders). I am thinking of over wintering and rasing some next winter to supply small quantities to guys like us. That way we could raise a few in an aquarium to grow out for the spring. I'm trying to find out if there is any desire for this out there to see if it could be a possible market. The only broodstock readily available produce an all male offspring--not much good for a pond enviornment to provide autumn forage.

I'm thinking 80-100 2" fingerlings for about $100-$125 including shipping. How many Pond Meisters would be interested in that?

Moderators--I'm just wanting to take a survey to see if it would be a worthwhile venture. If you feel this is inappropriate please delete this thread.

Edit/update.
My thinking was more hoping, the fish wound up costing $4 each for the 150, 2-4" fish, but still more than worth it!



Last edited by Rainman; 03/21/08 03:18 PM. Reason: update


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I bet you could find some people that are interested, but how many people actually have a system that they can grow out fish in.

If you did this it would probably be a good idea to include instructions on how to build a system for the people that don't have an aquarium.

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How big would a grow out system for 80-100 fingerlings need to be?


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http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/dbweb/outreach/aqua/282FS.PDF

Try this link it should contain most everything you will need to know.


1/4 & 3/4 acre ponds. A thousand miles from no where and there is no place I want to be...
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I am going to be growing the fish I get in 2 or 3 55 gallon aquariums using only an undergravel filter and an external charcoal filter. I am starting with 20-40 fish per tank and using 2 tanks. I will use the 3rd only if the fish appear stressed. I bought all the tanks from people on craigsList and have less than $150 invested so far. For feed I am going to use nothing but cheap floating catfish pellets (32% prot.), crushed if needed.



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I for one would be interested in either purchasing tilapia when the water gets warm enough or setting up a similar system until the temps get warm enough to put them in the pond. I also live in the St. Louis area.

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I would be interested in a few. I am currently raising 160 genetically altered male nile tilapia, for research purposes. I received them as fingerlings and placed them in 4 seperate 30 gallon tubs. I've had them for about a month and they have more than doubled in size. I've started seperating them by size. I don't want to exceed 12lbs. per gallon, so I have plenty of room thus far and don't for see running out.

Rainman, good pick up on those tanks.

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I'd probably be interested... provided I can't find a competitively priced local source.


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Rainman, I might be interested as I am having trouble getting my own. I have a guy that is suppose to get me some but he has not come across yet. That price seems fair to me. Just how do you ship the talapia? Can you do it in cold weather.

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Sorry I have not been around for any updates. I had one of those nasty new superbugs darn near do me in.

So far I've only set up one 55 gallon tank with about 90 2" FH to get some bacteria going before I get my Blue Tilapia to control ammonia levels. I am going to order the fish in the next couple weeks. I scrapped the undergravel filter idea, too ineffective, and decided on an outside cannister that came with the tanks and seems to work very well.

SoSuaty, the answer to your question is what I'll be trying to figure out in the next few months

Ricky, the fish are shipped in insulated containers and can be shipped overnight with no danger. 2 days in winter if you use a couple hand warmer packs.

Fishtech, What are you using for filtration in your tanks?

Weissguy, I know of no supplier in missouri. The closest supplier I've found is in southern arkansas who has adults during the summer only. $25 per pound.

James, Have you got an aquarium? If you do, I may give you some to raise.



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I have a Sta-rite system 3 sand filter and a homemade biofilter. I am raising the fish for work, so cost isn't an issue.

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Rainman - Let me know when you are ready to ship. I'll probably be interested.


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Rainman-You might want to be careful with your distribution. The reason that there are no Missouri suppliers is that it is not on the approved species list in Missouri. Stocking them in a pond or other body of water that is not "contained" is technically illegal.

Last edited by moryan; 02/15/08 12:12 PM.
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Moryan, when I talked to the Conservation Dept. it is not consider a concern as water temps get to cold for survival.
Second I am NOT distributing. I am merely trying to see if there would be enough of a market available to make overwintering costs at least self-supporting.



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Rainman I would want that in writing from the authorized State authority before I put them in a pond. In most states if not allowed (permitted) the result is they will kill and drain the pond and send you a bill for their work along with a fine. I would hate to loose my adult fish and have to start over. Plus I would have about as many ex-friends as I had provided fish to when they suffered the same fate.
















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Thanks for the advice ewest. I'd already planned on that. Right now they will be in a closed system (aquariums), which is allowed under current state laws. When I spoke to the regional office they told me nobody had ever asked about tilapia due to the climate, they were also quite interested in the idea---who knows, maybe they will help fund some of it.
There is only one company in the state that owns tilapia, S n S Aquatics in West Plains, Mo.



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Rainman - Moryan provides some good advice. He knows his stuff when it comes to such regulations. He's a fisheries management guy for the state, though he'll REALLY blow your mind with his knowledge of aquatic plants and biology. WOW!



12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Moryan, I PM'd you about the State Regulations question. I would like more of your advice on this.

Thanks



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The Blue Tilapia will arrive thursday via Delta Airlines. I will have to get an exemption from the state before I can put them in my pond--HIGHLY unlikely. Looks like I'm going to have some expensive aquarium fillets this fall. The state is a little paranoid that the fish might survive average 38 degree winter waters. Who's up for a fingerling-fish-fry?



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 Originally Posted By: Rainman
The Blue Tilapia will arrive thursday via Delta Airlines.

Their luggage should show up by Saturday.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
 Originally Posted By: Rainman
The Blue Tilapia will arrive thursday via Delta Airlines.

Their luggage should show up by Saturday.


Very true! I hope they didn't pack for a long stay! I'll be looking for someoene outside of Misery (Missouri) to sell them to. \:\(



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Rainman - Sorry to hear about the exemption requirement. It's my hope you'll at least give it a shot. You could open up the possibility to a lot of other Missouri pond owners if you succeed. Keep us updated if you decide to go for it.


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Never fear Weissguy, as I stated in another thread, the wife says I have OCD, so the powers that be will come to know me well.

She doesn't realize that it's not OCD but just a true pond passion I have.



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Rainman, where did you end up getting the tilapia from? Was it overly expensive to have them shipped?

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James, it cost more than I'd origanally thought. They are coming from southern La.in the bayou. It is $75 per box (3)on Delta Freight, total weight is 210lbs. Wouldn't be so bad if I could have cancelled the order since I can't put them in my pond now. I've had a few private messages from those looking to provide homes.....maybe I will be able to offset the expense. Give me a PM if you want to talk.

Last edited by Rainman; 02/28/08 06:29 PM.


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My pond FINALLY hit full pool last week after some minor dam work. It raised 14' in 1 month with all the recent rain and quadrupled in size. Got just enough water to make it trickle out of the spillway.

What sucks is now I've got a full pool and my Tilapia arrived today but Missouri isn't going to let me put them in. An aquarium fish only.

PM me if you would like some. I plan to keep only a few for my big aquarium.



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Update......

The 150 or so Blue Tilapia arrived safe and sound on 3/14/2008. The supplier threw in about 20 Red Tilapia as well-they are a pretty fish! Too bad I can't put them in my pond but the State says no. I dont think finding homes for these will be hard though. It's fun watching them grow in the aquarium. I am going to start adding a weekly picture with a ruler in it. Even though it won't always be the same fish it should offer some prospective to the rapid growth. they grew from .25 to .5 inch this first week!

week 2






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My interest is Aquaponics. In my search for info I have found many suppliers worldwide of Talapia, both mixed sex and male only as well as altered male only. There is a chart of suppliuers of fingerlings in the USA. As soon as I find the darn thing, I will post it for those interested.

I do remember that 100 fingerlings (Altered males I think) cost $100. or more for freight alone from a Florida supplier according to a post in Barrelponics of Backyard Aquaponics Forums.

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You might want to look into Aquaponics or Barrelponics is another version. It would work well with the Talapia you already have. Not using the pond but growing them out and balancing that with plants. Its about using the filtered fish water to grow veggies in and returning the cleaned water to the fish ponds (tank or whatever) in a recirculating system using very little replacement water and providing a controlled system.

The fish create Nitrogen? and the plants use it leaving clean water for growing fish

Look at the pics here.............

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1618

Paste that in your browser

Good luck EdH

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Thanks pfatz,

The inventor/perfectors of the system (S & S Aqua Farms) in West Plains, Mo. gave up on it, although it works extremely well. I just don't have room for the plant life required. I also have no desire for the large amount of capital and low return it has.



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Week 3 has some good growth! The fish are 2-3 inches away from the glass, so they are longer that they appear. (The opposite of a Condello BG pic!) LOL





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What company or companies have you guys had luck with? I would like to buy about 500 Rocky Mountain White fingerlings. They would need to be shipped to Tuscaloosa, AL 35406. Any suggestions?

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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Rainman - What's the update on your tilapia project? How are they doing? Did you end up selling any? Did you pursue the special exemption?

Very curious as I am planning to set up a closed system tilapia tank next year.


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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I'm just now starting to save fry for the people wanting to grow them out for spring. Like andersons, it is a WHOLE lot cheaper and easier to ship them. A lot fewer morts too. I shipped some out yesterday and will be sending out more soon.

Didn't do much with them this summer. The wife gave us a real scare. Or rather the softball in her brain did!

Where the heck have YOU been? I haven't seen you post for a while. Glad you're back! Where's Moryan?

Last edited by Rainman; 10/09/08 09:44 PM.


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Rainman, I have some 3 to 4 inch that are about 4 months old that I guess are females because they are real heavy in the belly with what I guess are eggs. They move around slower than the rest of the tilapia in the tank. They are not in pairs, just move around by themselves. This has been going on for about a week. Two of the fish look like they are about to pop. Should they not be in pairs by now? This is new to me. Thanks Ricky

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Do you have small gravel in your tank? What kind of tilapia, blue, nile, mozambique? Blues and nile mature young. Blue = 2-3 months. Nile = 3-5 months. Mozambique (Black Tilapia) = 5-7 months.

I asked about the gravel because in my tank the dominant male builds a nest and becomes VERY aggresive. The fish don't pair up. the males gather harems. The females when becoming gravid will give big, open-mouthed "kisses" to any fish coming near it, except her chosen male. I just lost a 7" male that a female 6" female tore the tail and lower scales off of because he would not take no for an answer. In the picture, there is no mistaking the nest. The Dom. male is in the lowere left with mush-mouth (she looks like she was stepped on. no left eye and deformed lower jaw) beside him. The Fake plant mat is there so the male cannot see the other fish from his nest and prevents numerous attacks. The other females on the top came over for the pic thinking they were gouing to be fed.





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 Originally Posted By: Rainman
I'm just now starting to save fry for the people wanting to grow them out for spring. Like andersons, it is a WHOLE lot cheaper and easier to ship them. A lot fewer morts too. I shipped some out yesterday and will be sending out more soon.

Didn't do much with them this summer. The wife gave us a real scare. Or rather the softball in her brain did!

Where the heck have YOU been? I haven't seen you post for a while. Glad you're back! Where's Moryan?


Sounds like the project is working out really well. Good to hear. Sorry to hear about the wife. Hope she is recovering well. I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Where have I been? You caught me! I've been quite a stranger lately for sure. These last few months have been BUSY times for me. Some fun busy, some not so fun busy. hehe. The highlight was my yearly trip to the boundary waters. This year we chose to go mid-September. It can be a real gamble to go that late in the season, but it ended up being a great week. Perfect weather and excellent fishing. SMB were out of season, but I guess no one bothered to tell them.

Moryan actually PM'd me several weeks ago. He had the shocker boat available and offered to do a survey of the pond, but I had too much going on at the time. Hoping I can hit him up for it next year though.

Now for an interesting development on the tilapia front. A supplier in Illinois I've been talking to for nearly two years just contacted me yesterday and told me he had fingerlings available and could ship them immediatley. I think you may have actually spoken with this gentleman also during your search. Next thing I knew he already had 100 fingerlings packed up and on a truck heading to me, and said he'd just bill me later! I should get them tomorrow or Thursday. They are a nilotica cross, primarily nilotica. For the price, I just couldn't pass them up. Now I have some SERIOUS preparing to do! I want to get some blues also, so I'll probably be hitting you up for some of those at some point. Your breeders look great! If you are interested in diversifying your stock, maybe we could even swap some? I'm going to try not to kill these first though. hehe

What type of feed are you feeding your fingerlings? I'm doing some research on that, but perhaps you've got some advice?

Now that things have slowed a bit, I plan to be around more often again.


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Weissguy, for feed, I use NutraFin Max complete diet flake food for the fry and HBH African Cichlid "Attack" after they reach 2 inches. Tilapia ARE in fact African Cichlids.

For the Blue Tilapia fry, I get $135, which includes the shipping. Since I have some red/blue crosses, I send about 25-50 extra fry for a total of about 150 fry.

I don't think I'd be interested in other tilapia yet. I don't have the extra aquariums for them and since the Blues can survive the lowest temps, mature the earliest, and are the best suited for ponds, I'll stick with them for now. However, a cross between blues and niles makes for a very fast growing fish. The crossing of tilapias seems to only benefit the original cross. Offspring og the crosses seem to lose any benefits of the original parents.



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Weissguy

If you end up needing some extra space next summer. It looks like I just purchased the land and former hog unit to the east of you. The pits in the building would work great for raising fish (40 pits that are 18"deep, 8 feet wide and 60 feet long). I think I'll gutter the building and run it into the extra pits to store extra water or we could use your water tower and pump out of the lake. Might be all kinds of opportunities.

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Moryan - That's probably way more than I'm able/qualified to take on, but it would be a great setup for sure. That's definately begging for SOMETHING cool like that.

Rainman - Thanks for the advice. I've had cichlid tanks off and on most of my life. I have a nice 80 gallon setup at my office actually. They are a lot of fun. Where are you buying your HBH fish food? Petco? Thinking that would probably be the cheapest locally.

Doh! Just found there is a recall on the HBH Attack food (found to contain melamine!!!): http://www.hbhpet.com/newsrecall.htm


Last edited by Weissguy; 10/21/08 10:16 PM.

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I order it online from petsmart when the have sales.

BTW the recall was from 2007 and almost all commercial fish foods contained it.



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Moryan, you're with the state. Those raceway "pits" sound like they need some well water to raise cold water species in.



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 Originally Posted By: Rainman
I order it online from petsmart when the have sales.

BTW the recall was from 2007 and almost all commercial fish foods contained it.


That's a relief. Thanks for the info!


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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Rainman,

The only problem with well water is the lack of oxygen. Actually, Weissguy has a filtered pipe in his pond at about 18' (cold water) that runs to a 15,000 gallon tank that gravity feeds the raceway pits. It was set up to supply water to what was a hog facility.
The other problem for me is, that my raising fish would be considered a conflict of interest. One of the many benefits of working for the state.

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Moryan, I can see the confict thing.

Where would the oxygen come from in water at a depth of 18' unless the lake is aerated?

The O2 problem is easily overcome in either case, well water or deep, dead water. I would be more concerned with toxic deep water myself.

Last edited by Rainman; 10/28/08 10:01 PM.


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