Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New Fish Cage Designs?

I usually dont get my mag until a few weeks after most???

Nate, what exactly are we looking at in your avatar? Is it an attractant light in your pond?

"What EXACTLY are we looking at in your avatar?"

The pond is only about 20' across and I do have a green underwater light in there, the picture doesnt even come close to doing justice to how cool the mini pond looks at night. I have a small pump that pumps water from the big pond to the mini pond continuously, so it doesnt freeze in the winter or get stagnant in the summer. During the day you cant see in there at all, but at night the pond comes "alive" and you can see right down to the bottom super clearly. It is about 3.5' deep and the bottom is gravel. I have raised those fish in the pond all year and feed them pellets and fatheads. The trout and the muskie are still very aggressive this time of year, but the other fish dont move or eat much.

So you have muskie in the little pond? What are the overall dimensions and average depth of the min-pond. I'm about to build a new pond and would like any information you can get me on this little jewel.

Bruce,
we just dug the mini pond 2 years ago with a new holland tc 45d. It is 3.5' deep in the middle and basically just a circle about 20' across. we put a few wheel barrow loads of pea gravel and picked up about 30 bigger stones from a field and lined the bottom. we have a small pump maybe like 5 gallons a minute from our big pond into the little pond. the extra water flows down a small water fall down about a 40' creek and back into the big pond. we planted wildflowers around the edges and took native shoreline vegetation from the big pond, as well as some lily pads and arrowhead from a neighbors pond.

It took 3 guys about 4 hours to complete the project. Our original idea was to raise fathead minnows for bait, etc, but I get fathead minnows for under $3 per pound and we realized it was much more fun to watch and feed gamefish than it was to watch and feed fatheads. We also have a nice population of crayfish that have thrived in the mini pond, we brought them in from the creek.
Also if we shut the pump off, the pond will drain down most of the way in about 1 week.

Definitely is an awesome project that is very easy to do. I think the pump cost about $40, but the green light is what makes the pond AWESOME at night. It is pretty expensive though at $280, but very much worth every penny. I am going to try to get better pictures, next chance I get.

Cecil is there a limit on how large the bass can grow in a cage? Is the maximum attainable size of a bass due almost entirely to water quality and the amount of food that is available? Can you grow a ten pound bass in a cage?

James,

I can't answer that as I haven't done it. I've only grown them them from the fingerly size to about 11 inches give or take. It's possible but then again they may become terretorial once they reach sexual maturity. If so separating the sexes may help.

Someone will have to try it I guess. I may try it with smallmouth bass as I don't want free swimming bass in my male bluegill/female yellow perch pond. They are agressive at feeding time (at least the largemouths sure were) and push the gills and perch away from the feed.

I no longer grow out largemouth bass as I want to concentrate on more lucrative species and I only have so many ponds.

I recall some discussion in the past that feed-trained (and presumably only/primarily pellet-fed) LMB peaked out at a lower max weight than LMB with a good live forage base. I can't remember what the supposed pellet fed LMB plateau weight was, but this limit would certainly apply to LMB in a cage if it applied to any pellet-fed LMB at all.

This discussion was at least a year ago. The recent introduction of Purina Aquamax Largemouth probably would push any pellet-fed bass max weight upwards by providing a better, LMB-specific food source.

If I had to guess i would say using a large cage you could probably do it. But I have seen fighting between free roaming pellet fed largemouths during feeding time. There always seemed to be one or two individuals that chase around other bass and nipped at their fins.

Another thing to consider is with some species if the density is high enough in a cage you eliminate terretorial behavior as it would be too much trouble to set up shop in a part of the cage and call it your home turf. All in all domestication and eliminating fish naturally or by selection that don't do well in the cage at a large size, would probably achieve your goal. However I have to ask why you would want to raise large bass in a cage in a recreational pond?

Easier to catch?

I was just wondering out loud what was possible and exploring what could be accomplished with a cage. I want to build a cage this year but am still considering what to raise in it. I would like to have at least one bait cage if nothing else full of small bluegill and golden shiners so I don't have to catch them out of the pond each week to go fishing.

...why you would want to raise large bass in a cage in a recreational pond?

Cecil I'm still trying to raise large bass in any kind of environment. If Meadowlark can raise large Pacu in his recreational hot tube what's wrong with big bass in a cage?

One last question. Where can I get the mesh for the cage?

Stoney Creek Equipment

IIRC, they are PBMag advertisers.

Ah ha James! So you are thinking out of the box. I like that!

Shiners and small bluegill would not be a problem in a cage. As far as small bluegills make sure if they are not feed trained that they are at a good density to make them feed better. Bluegills feed better if there is more competition. Also grading your shiners or bluegill is very important.

You know I've had a few bass that were total welfare fat slobs that just hung around for the pellets. One was almost 6 lbs. but she was only 19 inches long! I don't believe she was that agressive at feeding time, she just inhaled pellet after pellet. It would have been interesting to put her in a cage and just keep feeding her like a penned pig to see how big she would get. At her relative weight she could have weighed 8 or more pounds by the time she reached 21 inches!

If you wanted to try something like that, do what I did in the article on caged bass in the recent issue, but keep about 10 of the largest ones in a 7 by 7 foot cage and monitor them. Make sure though they are all excactly the same size. If they don't seem to be getting along remove the most agressive fish or take thin them out.

Yeah Stoney Creek is where I get my mesh. Don't be afraid to ask for larger mesh then they have in the catalog. I just ordered a roll of 1 1/4 inch mesh from them that was not listed in the catalog.

Good luck!

The back Issue of PBoss Mag Mar-Apr 2007 "Caged Fish on a Small Scale, Part I" has a list of suppliers for plastic netting, cages, cage kits, feeders and two references for additional reading and information about cage culture. A place in Minnesota (Internet Inc) sells custom cut lengths of plastic netting for smaller applications. Often one does not want or need 50ft rolls. I prefer to buy just the lengths and sizes of mesh that I need for a particular project.

Bill,

I think Internet is Stoney Creek's supplier. At least the 1 1/4th inch mesh was from them. And I believe I have actually ordered pieces and not the whole roll but I could be wrong.

Cecil,
Internet will sell directly to the customer, thus netting may be cheaper from Internet compared to Stoney Ck. esp if you buy more netting than is needed and excess is never used. - Bill

Bill Cody,

This question is in reference to your article in the May/June 07 issue of PondBoss. On page 41, upper right paragraph beginning with optimal conditions, you mention "minimal turbulence".

Within the next week or two, weather permitting, I plan to muck out the stream that feeds my BG pond. The plan is to create a 20' x 30' x 8' mini pond. With the use of blocking nets, I would like to grow out some fathead minnows (free run) in addition to experimenting with raising some fish in cages. The plan calls for adding one 9" disk diffuser to foster water quality. The cage(s), will mirror the cylindrical ones shown in your articles. In your opinion, would the water movement caused by this diffuser exceed the limits of "minimal turbulence" creating a stress condition for the fish?

Russ

Russ, I'm glad to hear that someone reads the details. Do not put the diffuser directly under the cage. Place diffuser off to one side and that should be adequate. The turbulence referred to was primarily strong wave action or boat traffic on larger bodies of water such as lakes.

Russ,

I second that. A diffuser right under the cage will stress the fish.

Thank you gentlemen.

As I'm thinking about framing material, Bill/Cecil, I'd like to hear your opinion on using a hoola hoop for a top frame?


Russ

I don't see why not, but Bill is the one into the waste basket models. Mine are dumpsters.

Russ asks: "As I'm thinking about framing material, I'd like to hear your opinion on using a hoola hoop for a top frame?" The main problem that I foresee with the hoola hoop is its lack of rigidity. But, when one wraps the plasic mesh around the frame it does tend to strengthen the top frame. What you don't wnat to happen is when lifting or handling the cage with a weight load of fish or attached algae that the top frame bends or collapses due to weight stress. Then the top frame would have to be replaced. That is quite a bit of needless work to detach and re-attach a top frame. If you try it, let us know how well it works long term.

I would not be afraid to try a frame similar to Cecil's box frames made from PVC. It should be no problem for smaller cages (3 ft sq or less) using just one square or rectangular top frame and the rest of the cage of just plastic netting. If constant stand alone and smooth walls are desired then use 4 vertical legs; one on each corner. The last cage that I built, instead of wooden legs, I used legs made of 1" dia PVC. I like them. They are rigid and do not tend to float which often causes the cage to want to float sideways if the wooden legs are too big around. I can send photos if you want to see how I attached legs to the top frame and cage.

Because this mini pond will not have a dock, one thought I had involved using two sets of stacked pallets (coupled together) in conjunction with the cages. The stacked pallets will serve as nesting sites for the minnows with the added bonus of being an anchor point for the cages. Placing the pallet stacks close enough to shore, with the top pallets above the waterline, I was hoping to use a gangplank to access the cages for feeding and maintenance. With this setup either type cage, cylindrical or square, should work. In anycase, more food for thought.

Thanks

Russ

Bill or Cecil,

Given the fact that this will be my first attempt at cage raising BG (with thoughts of yellow perch later on), would you recommend 1/2" or 3/4" square mesh for cage material. Fish size will be 2-3".

Russ

Russ for that size fish I would not go bigger than 1/2. Most of the time I use 1/4 or 3/8 for 2-5 in BG.