Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Creative engineering

Sorry Bski my approach would run you about 100$ including the 12 gage wire, 59$ actuuator, and 5$ toggle switch. The pull cable & spring is well within your allocated budget. You best buy a cheap pair of fish scales and see how much force that choke mechanism requires and provide that info to Lee. The servo might not have enough guts to do the trick. I know all of my lawn equipment has noticable friction in the choke and run levers. Good luck my friend.

I can't find spools of continuous throttle-type cable.

I see it's spec's at 42 oz - in. As is ft/lbs, are we talking the nutz to move 42 oz 1 inch? That doesn't seem very flimsy...right? What is the operating temperature range? What's gonna happen when we go to operate the servo one morning when it's 10 degrees outside?
-
I have to think that a pushrod linkage will be warranted in this application. Thoughts?
-
Finally, describe to me how this little setup is powered.
-
Thanks for taking this time. I goofed with model aiplanes and boats when I was a kid. It still intrigues me.

Brettski, You don't need throttle type cable since there will be a spring pulling the choke back. Just get the lightest woven wire cable you can find at HD or Lowes or Jakes Hardware & Squash Emporia. I have a short piece of 1/16" stainless woven wire cable that would be perfect for your application. You just need to find a small spool of it for the distance you need to cover.

How would you thread or guide it between the two buildings?

If it was me I just run it in a seperate conduit in the ground along side the wire conduit. you could run it with the wires but If i did that I would sure get a coated one. Even then you might ware a hole in a wire eventually so I would pay the extra and seperate them.

Ahah, Im an enjineer, at leest last I chekt. My egspert addvise:





















Jus go out to the shed and manuelly do it!

Seriously, I gotta believe you can get a 12 volt solenoid or servo motor cheap. Don't some ventilation systems in cars have servo motors that operate the damper flaps to direct air to various vents on the dash? I think some of these are electric versus vacuum operated. Bet you can get one at a junk yard for about 5 bucks and all you have to do is wire it with a switch. I would drive both ways so it would positively put the choke both on and off.

Brettski, do a google on "automotive blend door actuator". These are small 12 volt electric servo motors that open and close the blend door on auto ventilation systems. On my Chrysler it is under the dash and not hard to get at. It is a rotary actuator so you would have to connect a bellcrank or lever arm to it so that it could drive your choke lever back and forth. It must have an automatic shuttoff when it gets to full stroke either direction because when activated they move one direction and shut off. Probably is set up so reversing polariy runs it one way or the other. You may be able to take the plastic part that the motor drives out of the dash and modify it to hook up to your choke lever thus not having to make a mechanism. Should be able to find these buy the dozens in the junk yard.

Brettski:

As it turns out upon closer reading of the literature about the servo driver, it does indeed require a separate 4 cell battery pack to power it. I'd use 4 or maybe 5 AA or D size cells and put in an on/off switch.

The battery powered servo tester sends power and position data down our previously discussed extension cable to the servo and causes it to move, just like in your model airplane setup when you a fun-lovin' youngster.

I've flown model airplanes in -20 Celcius weather and while slow and unhappy, they did indeed operate. I've also crashed airplanes in the same temperature too. These same servos were used in the large C band satellite dishes to operate the antenna polarization controls down to -40 C. Mind you, next to zero load on the servo to just flip a small length of wire 90 degrees inside the feedhorn.

The torque rating of the standard servo is 42 ounce-inches. In other words, will push or pull 42 ounces if the servo arm is 1 inch long.

Extending the servo arm so it completes a 2.75" arc may cut that value down by more than half ... which should still be more than sufficient to move the choke if it moves as smoothly as you described. Some of those large model airplane control surfaces can have significant loads on them at high speed.

If the "standard servo" isn't enough power, bigger servos are available, or it could be run from your 12 volt gen-set battery through a voltage regulator to get down to 6 volts, which is generally considered to be the "practical max voltage" for these servos. I don't think that is needed though and the wiring becomes a little more complicated.

I suppose in its most simple form, you could just have return spring on it and run a length of binder twine up to the house, run it through a window and you pull it to bring the engine into full choke position and let out line as the engine warms up.....

Anyway, looks like you've got no shortage of suggestions, if I can be of any more help after you've made up your mind, just whistle! Happy to help.

Lee

Brettski...I get cable&lined housing in bulk.Please get a little more specific about distance and Ill ck when I get to work.I think it comes in 50 ft lengths but it could be a 100.

OK I just looked and the housing is in 50ft rolls and the solid wire comes in 50 or 100ft rolls.The good news is a 100 ft of inner wire is about 10.00.The bad news,the housing is about 35.00 per 50 ft.Let me know.

B'ski,

May I suggest you look at outboard motors? Either on line or at a local marina. Most every electric start outboard in the last 20 years or more has an electric choke. Push a small button, the choke engages, turn the key and the motor starts. Release the button after a few seconds and a small spring not much bigger than a ballpoint pen spring returns the choke butterfly back the the open position.

Outboard motors usually run in the warmer months so you may have to hold the choke button in for a extra few seconds in the colder months. All it would take is 2 wires, probably 18 ga. or 16 ga. at most and a momentary contact switch next to wherever you put the starter switch.

Just splice into the 3 wires on the back of the key switch mounted on the generator and run them the 50 or 75 feet or whatever length you need thru your underground plastic pipe alongside the 2 wires for the choke. Connect an additional key switch and a choke button wherever you want your remote start location to be and you will be able to start the generator from either location.

If you have a marina nearby or know of someone with a junk electric start outboard you could probably get the choke selnoid pretty cheap and the necessary wire, key switch, choke button switch and needed connectors shouldn't cost all that much.

Simple, proven effective and cheap. Good luck.

Don't re-event the wheel, just go buy one they already make a remote start and choke for this application.
http://www.hayesequipment.com/portable_generator_wireless_remote_start_kit.htm


I got to thinking "HOW do RV generators remote start and choke?
Quick search found the above.

Awe, RT, you took all the fun out of this!


That's the way to do this if they make one to fit your generator. I don't see a price on their site either.

Do you guys want me to delete the post before Bski sees it. Then tell him about it later after he digs all those ditches buring wire and cable or stringing hay twin thru the trees?
Theo you have the power you make the call on this one. I like the guy so I can't bring myself to do it. I just want to be the one to post in his thread about getting it installed "Good job but why didn't you just buy one of these". We can all laugh about it at the convention this year.

Thanks pal....but....go ahead and ditch the post. The $399 price tag buys alot of trips in the rain to the powerhouse to push the button.

I can see I've been a bad influence on you, Bski.

I hear a loud squeaking noise........ some one get an oil can

it's gas
-
When the remote starter costs nearly the same as the generator, I start bloating.

Brettski,
Check this out. I bought a RF remote to start my generator but mine has an electric choke. You could just add a servo (12 volt) as Lee proposed to the other output and need no wires underground.
Total cost was $16.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-CH-RF-Wireless-Rem...1742.m153.l1262

That's pretty slick, BS. I would actually need 3 channels (I think...?). One for the on/off function, one for the starter function (would that be momentary?), and one for the servo to the choke (also momentary?).
Help me remember how this stuff works.
The relays are just switches. They supply no power. They only control the flow of power that is sent thru them from an external supply. Right?
You have experience with a similar unit that is single channel. How did you hook it up? Do I read the description on this unit correctly?...each channel is adjustable to provide switching in either press on/press off, or momentary press on and release to turn off.
-
This new twist really intrigues me...thanks.

The receiver is powered by an external 12 volt system. The relays power the circuit (check current rating). I used the battery on the generator for that purpose. My Generator has a push button start (Normally Open circuit) so it was fairly easy to wire up. I only have a toggle switch for the on off switch (I leave it on all the time). They have a impressive range also, It works up to 600 feet away.
My original reason for purchasing this was for an electric gate I am installing but had to experiment with it first.
Here is another transmitter/Receiver combo that may meet all your needs. There is a wiring diagram with the below link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RF-Wireless-Remote-C...1742.m153.l1262

OK, I'm really liking this idea...
I gotta explore one of my previous questions again. I did a lousy job expaining it.
If the receiving unit is powered by a very specific 12Vdc source, and the relays are rated to handle 10A/120Vac, 20A/12Vdc, then the relays are not supplying power to the circuit they control, right? The relays are nothing more than a switch. The circuit (that the relay switch controls) is unpowered until an outside power source is introduced to the circuit (a source voltage that is within the relay's capacity of 10A/120Vac, 20A/12Vdc). If I am wrong, then why would the receiver specify a power source of 12Vdc, but offer an entirely different range of handling capacities for the relays?

It takes a certain (low) voltage (and so many small amps) to throw the relay, but the switch that is closed can handle a different, usually heavier load (higher voltage and/or current).

It's analogous to a simple light switch in your house. Closing the switch requires a flick of your finger. Once closed, the switch can handle 110 VAC at 10 or 15 A - something the activating device (your finger) can't handle.