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i had three things on my mind (yup, thats all, just three) and lo and behold, it let me log on......o.k. as quick as i possibly can,

1) we are getting rain, thank heaven, some fresh water for my dessicated puddle. we are supposed to get somewheres over 2-3 inches out of this dip in the jet stream.

2) article in local paper (Sac Bee)

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/570796.html

the gist of article is that new information regarding catch and release tactics may actually be harming fish populations (particularly bass) especially during the spawn. the article first gets into whether or not fish feel pain, then discusses how repeated catch and release may affect breeding, behavior and that we could be selectively creating a more docile smaller bass population less able to defend their nests. there are quite a few red flags for me in this article, but just wondering if anybody has heard of this before?

3) in my absence on pondboss (due to the server problems mostly) i have to confess that you are no longer my only love. you are my first love, but i now attend another. a local fish talk forum that is quite good for tracking conditions and tactics at local fishing spots......when should i expect the divorce papers?


GSF are people too!

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"Our D.I.E.D.V.O.R.C.E.
Became final today."

----------------------------

I think we can excuse an occasional fling with a local fishing forum, DIED. It didn't mean anything, right? (Sniff )

You read your pre-nup, didn't you?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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I'm hurt...


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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As a seemingly responsible pondmeister, D.I.E.D. has created what most folk term "the all american family" with his cozy California pond. His family-intuitive steps to diversify the family fabric by the adoption of GSF shows his desire and drive to make his pond-world a better place to live. He is a good father...until now.
Shunning the rest of the village to consider dipping his worm in a different fishing hole will be the un-doing of this carefully crafted family unit that we know as D.I.E.D.'s pond. With the alarmingly high rate of D.V.O.R.C.E., the concern shifts to the effects on the fish. Many psychological studies have been performed, all revealing the same destructive results that the D.I.E.D.V.O.R.C.E. will ultimately have on the fish. This study from the U of MN. sums it up.
-
 Quote:
Effects of D.V.O.R.C.E. on Fish


D.V.O.R.C.E. affects fish differently, depending on their gender, age and stage of development. Their world, their security and their stability seems to fall apart when their pondmeisters D.V.O.R.C.E. Following are universal responses that researchers have found among fish of D.V.O.R.C.E.

FEELINGS


They worry that their pondmeisters don't love them anymore and they feel abandoned. They feel like the pondmeister who left has D.V.O.R.C.E.'d them too.
They feel powerless and helpless because they can't get their pondmeisters back together. They can't speed up or slow down the process.
They feel angry although they may not express their anger.
They often feel they are at fault. They may believe something they did or said caused a pondmeister to leave.
They grieve. D.V.O.R.C.E. is a loss in the lives of fish and pondmeisters. They experience a grieving process very similar to mourning a death.
They experience conflicts of loyalty.

BEHAVIORS

Acting out behavior ranges from very mild behavior, such as difficulty sleeping, to extremely destructive behavior, such as suicide, drug abuse, or violence.

Other behaviors may include problems in schools, nervous habits, repetitive physical behaviors, and regressive behaviors such as bed-wetting, fears, and use of comfort items. Fish may become clingy and whiny and they may need greater understanding of their moods and behavior. They have a greater need to be nurtured.

They may think they have to "take care" of their pondmeisters. Giving up one's Y-O-Y to care for emotionally troubled pondmeisters is a widespread characteristic in fish of D.V.O.R.C.E.

These behaviors are common for fish experiencing D.V.O.R.C.E. There is a false assumption fish are "naturally resilient" and can "get through" a D.V.O.R.C.E. with little or no impact on their lives. Instead, they need support systems and individuals to help during the transition.

-
In summary, D.I.E.D. needs intervention. This may require a group effort, headed by our resident PB forum expert, Dr Burger.

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The best intervention I know of is child support and separate maintenance aka alimony.

Someone will be contacting you Dave. It is, of course, in your own best interest.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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DIED one of the people quoted in the article has done (along with others) extensive research on SMB and LMB and bed fishing. There is a big difference in opinion on the results especially in different locations (eco systems). I have not seen the info on selection via bed fishing and doubt some of the offhand conclusions. This sure looks like a planted story to me. I know the SacBee did not develop the story and find these contributors by chance.




Last edited by ewest; 12/18/07 11:30 AM.















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theo, would it help if i told you i thought about pondboss the whole time?

b'ski, i havent laughed so hard since the arrest of baby bear at JHAP's place. in light of the information you provided, i will seek treatment, but i must speculate though that unlike situations like heybud's, where he will completely forsake his parental responsibilities to zephyr, i will maintain visitation rights at least once a week throughout the life of my spawn, or at least til they're out of college.

DD1, i have already set aside a budget large enough to make me cry at night.

ewest.....thanks for the input on the "meat" of my post and holding back on yer judgement of my indiscretions \:D :D. i was wondering if any of you had heard of the folks cited therein and had comments about it. i was skeptical of many of the conclusions, and wonder if the timing of this article is designed to take heat off the CA fish & game who (IMO) was solely responsible for the huge fishkill in our delta (that JHAP recently posted for you guys).....a wag the dog thing......if the general public and state congress comes to believe that fish feel pain and that we (fisherman) are destroying fish populations by catch and release methods you can probably kiss our "fishing rights in public waters" goodbye, and i'll be lookin to move to alaska. its bad enough that the CA resident fishing license costs keep rising (now almost $40/yr) and the services, stockings, and overall management of public water seems to be declining big time......what i got from this article is "lets blame the fisherman".


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Died, There is nothing worse than a pond boss scorned. I can forgive but not sure I can forget.


In Dog Beers, I've had one.
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uh oh, way to "influence people and win friends" dave.....i regret my statements above heybud, it was a low blow indeed, and its very gracious of you to offer yer mercy, i dont deserve it, as such i will restrict my diet to brussel sprouts only until i have atoned for my sins.


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Our DNR (Indiana) contends closing seasons and not allowing bedding bass to be caught has little effect on bass populations according to their research. One biologist told me its seems like there is a certain amount of mortality of fry and survival of fry that pretty much stays constant regardless of the above. Conversely Michigan closes their bass season until after the spawn. And guess where Michgan bass fishermen have their tournaments when the Michigan season is closed?

Like Ewest says there there isn't a lot of agreement on this and ecosystem responses may be different.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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As a general rule the data indicate that the longer the growing season (and resulting potential spawning period) the less bed fishing effects the population as to bass and BG. One of the contributors is a top of the line fisheries scientist/PhD and expert in fish genetics. He has even provided data to some PB members. I would like to see the data on the selection/genetics comments as I have serious doubts on the cause/effect and conclusions.
















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Died, Send me your wife's recipe for brussel sprouts and all is forgiven.


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my wife's roasted Brussel Sprouts (BS) w/ balsamic vinegar and bacon:

2 tblsp olive oil
2 lbs BS trimmed and halved
6-8 ounces bacon or thin sliced pancetta (eyetalian bacon)
2 garlic cloves finely chopped
3-4 tblsp balsamic vinegar
1 tblsp chopped fresh thyme

preheat oven to 450. brush heavy large rimmed baking sheet w/ 1 tblsp oil. place other tblsp oil in large bowl, mix in BS, bacon, and garlic. season w/ salt & pepper to taste. spread mixture in single layer on prepared sheet. roast until BS are tender and brown (and bacon mostly cooked) stirring often...about 20 minutes.

drizzle BS w/ vinegar and thyme, stir to coat. return to 450 oven, roast until BS heated through.......about 5-7 minutes, transfer to serving bowel...bon apetite.

dear heybud, if you feel my wife's BS dish an insufficent penalty as my only diet, i will supplement it w/ celebration loaf in atonement for my rudeness and other indiscretions.

a very merry christmas to y'all.

p.s. even jhap liked my wife's BS


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After nearly 25 years of marriage, I've found to secret to long-term matrimony is at least being able to pretend you like your spouse's BS.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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I looked at Theo's post with bleary, early morning eyes and thought it said "being able to pretend like your spouse's 85".


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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I LOVE my spouse's 85, Bruce - no pretending necessary!

Last edited by Theo Gallus; 12/20/07 08:43 AM.

"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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I love my wife's BS. Thanks for the recipe Died. YUMMY! All is forgiven.


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 Originally Posted By: dave in el dorado ca
p.s. even jhap liked my wife's BS


That's true and I'm no BS fan. Of course the way Jean cooked the BS made all the difference - heck I probably would have eaten some of my Elodea if Jean cooked it using her formally secret recipe.

Note to self, bring some Elodea to Jean to see if she can make it tasty, this could potentially kill two birds with one stone. Perhaps this could become the next California health food craze, we could become filthy rich. Move over Bill Gates, here comes "Elodea ala Jean" (soon to be served in your finer health food establishments through out California). Heck movie stars will drink wheatgrass juice why not Elodea Ala Jean. Also for desert we have Chocolate Elodea served in a pool of Raspberry sauce. Bon Appetit.

Dang if this takes off I'm gonna be able to get one of those fancy Solar Powered Aeration systems someday soon.



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...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
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thanks heybud, i hope you enjoy them as much as jhap does.

hey i got great news.......woke up this morning, walked outside to a BEAUTIFUL SOUND..........the creek is running. we got a total of about 3.4 inches of rain over the last couple days bringing the season total (since september) to about 8.5 inches which is right where it needs to be to get thangs going. the pond is filling, it has about 4 feet to go. i still have the aerator going at nights (was keeping things as fresh as possible) and this morning you could see the circulation/convection rings in the pond kind of like in ryan's post a while back.

i think i'll keep running the aerator until nearly full pool, cycle around the fresh water, then turn off for winter.

jhap, yer puddle should be doin well too.


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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
 Originally Posted By: dave in el dorado ca
p.s. even jhap liked my wife's BS


That's true and I'm no BS fan. Of course the way Jean cooked the BS made all the difference - heck I probably would have eaten some of my Elodea if Jean cooked it using her formally secret recipe.

Note to self, bring some Elodea to Jean to see if she can make it tasty, this could potentially kill two birds with one stone. Perhaps this could become the next California health food craze, we could become filthy rich. Move over Bill Gates, here comes "Elodea ala Jean" (soon to be served in your finer health food establishments through out California). Heck movie stars will drink wheatgrass juice why not Elodea Ala Jean. Also for desert we have Chocolate Elodea served in a pool of Raspberry sauce. Bon Appetit.

Dang if this takes off I'm gonna be able to get one of those fancy Solar Powered Aeration systems someday soon.


JHAP, allow me to offer my marketing services to assist the California Elodea Board (C.E.B.) in spreading the word on the wonders of Elodea! I have a number of dynamite advertising plans prepared to help make California the world's top producer of food-grade Elodea, including:

"Get a load o' Elodea!",
"I'm so happy I could just drop Elodea!", and
"Elodea - it's not just for Grass Carp anymore!"

I should also mention that I am in close negotiation with singer Phil Collins over use of his song "Sussudio" as the ear-pleasing Elodea jingle.

("El-el-lo-de-a")

No money for these services will be necessary up front, as the marketing effort may be financed through a simple check off system. Every time a California PM removes a piece of Elodea from his/her pond, they send a dollar to the C.E.B., of which I will receive a mere fifty cents.

Let's make California the Elodea Capitol of the World!

Note: Elodea marketing efforts on behalf of the C.E.B. do not guarantee the edibility, delectablity, or non-poisonous nature of Eldoea, even WRT it's consumption by Grass Carp.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Congrats Died, JHAP what about Elodea in that Celebration Loaf. Theo, See if you can come up with a marketing gimmick for that!


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thats a what i love about you guys, always thinkin....

jhap seems to be having a rough go of logging on, and yet for some reason my lil ol dial up has been doin pretty well lately.

the pond is up almost another foot since early this morning. when i came in this evening, there were fish all over the upper shallow end that had been high and dry for the last 5 months, they are happy happy happy.


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Come on now D.I.E.D.!

You know a picture is worth a thousand.....pounds of elodea.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Thanks Theo for those great slogans. I'll have my people contact your people to iron out all of the legal issues. I've also been working on a revised food pyramid that I think will really help move this project along.



We have also contracted with the Greanada School of Medicine and Refrigerator Repair to prepare a study that will once and for all scientifically prove the medical benefits of consuming Elodea. Based upon our generous contribution we feel certain of the results of that study.

Additional potential advertising slogans include:

Got Elodea?

Real men eat Elodea, are you man enough?

Elodea, it's tastes horrible so it must be good for you.

Elodea, unlike your local postal employee, it probably won't kill you.

Anyway, thats just some brainstorming.


JHAP
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...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
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And don't forget...

Which weighs more? A pound of Elodea or a pound of Gold.

Well Elodea, of course!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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