Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Pond project in North TX

By reading the posts here at Pond Boss I have managed to avoid a lot of mistakes, still managed a few on my own & so will journal my experience with the hope it helps someone else. It will be dry & to the point because as all good folk of German descent, I lack humor. Called NRCS July 2006, & they provided topo & soil maps. One of their guys came out & we found really the only good spot to dig a 4-5acre pond on 284 acres.The red dots outline the pond's perimeter.




The area was solid trees requiring that lanes be cut through the dry creek & to areas allowing for soil test holes to be dug




A dirt contractor was called & he came out, looked the situation over, gave a non-binding verbal idea of the cost & I began clearing the 5 acres of woods with a JD555




There were quite a few large white oaks(post oak) in the borrow area, so rather than burn them I decided to save them & have them rough-sawn for a pavilion. That pipe will be discussed later







The other trees were burned & others piled up to go back into the pond.





The first serious mistake was not getting a firm bid from the first contractor early on. When I finally got one in Dec 2006 it was 50% higher than the original guesstimate!I had been waiting 3 months to get this guy in there(because good dirt contractors are booked up) & now couldn't afford him.Talked to three more contractors & finally found one at a reasonable price, but had to wait until Aug 2007. It can't be over emphasized how important a comprehensive contract with all issues spelled out is. The contractor's son made the deal, but the dad ended up doing the work & he expected a bunch of the work was extra! I made a copy of the signed contract & brought it to the job & that was the end of that.Even so, when the work began(8 months later) all the flags were grown up in weeds or gone & there was an issue over where the water line was suppose to be. So make sure the benchmark used to survey is immovable, permanent & not in the clearing area until the pond is finished.


Backtracking a little, I also called DigTess & had them check for any utilities before I started digging. They found none, but here is what was in the middle of the woods



Had to make many, many phone calls to find this 4' line was abandoned & could be safely cut-up & removed. Another important matter was the creek, which was described as fish habitat that couldn't be reproduced with a dozier, so it must be preserved. That required cutting off trees with a chain saw & dragging them out without disturbing the side walls of the creek.











The last photo illustrates some common sense-trees will fall in any direction & that direction is directly affected by anything valuable inside the fall line..Another important consideration is that the pond doesn't back water up on a neighbors' property, so dam height was critical as this pond's origin was within 10' of neighbor's fence.The sandstone rock below is the pond's origin, with the fence being just behind this photo.



I found a used transit to be a very valuable tool for identifying the water line so the trees along the shore could be saved, establishing a pier height, & building the pavilion above the water line. I used the transit evry time I turned around.





Still no dirt has been moved, but a lot of planning goes into one of these projects. I don't believe there can be too much planning. Along the way my crawler broke & when I loaded it onto my 29' dovetail(slightly wet & slightly sloped) trailer, it slid off & could of been really bad. My neighbor came over & righted it..good neighbors are hard to find, but I've got one



Another hot topic addressed during the bidding stages was whether a draw-down pipe was needed.It was decided that this pond didn't require one because the watershed area was minimal at best(110ac for approx 5 ac pond) However my fact gathering would have led me to use this type if one had been needed



The digging took 5 weeks with a JD850, one 13yd & one 15yd scraper. The creek was cored 20' wide & 15' deep. The dam back slope is 4/1, the front 3/1, & it's 120' wide toe to toe at the deepest





After running a cultipacker & rye grass spreader with my JD6310, I can tell you my butt was puckered on that 4/1 slope!

The slope behind the dam allows for a grass spillway that's 40' wide with 2' freeboard on the dam



There was very little rock turned up, but what there was I pushed up around a built up area. This was one of those places where there was a lot of shallow area, so dug part of it deep & raised the rest to form a peninsula(pond not designed for ducks)



Moved about 33,000cu yd & also one other important point; had 2ac feet of top soil removed intially & stockpiled to cover the dam, as the deeper soils won't grow anything like grass to cover the dam





The pier project included 3&1/8' thick walled pipe & used guardrail. Dimensions are 26' across & 26' deep(that's how guardrail comes), there will be about 14' water at the pier end with 6"freeboard when water is at the spillway. This is all self engineered, so don't be too harsh. Started with an idea, a drawing & then with my wife's help, a pier. Later, a floating dock project.








I don't have a finished product picture, but a rail goes around the top for obvious reasons( I've seen some of your posts with a type of beverage,Corona something). The pavilion started the same way, drawings,etc








Don't have any cool CAD software, so please don't make fun of my drawings LOL. The pavilion was really born out of what to do with those big white oaks.The slab was stained & stamped to give a rock-like appearance( cost $2.00/ft more)



The metal braces are 3/8" thick & posts are anchored using Hilte epoxyed anchor bolts 4' deep




The upright posts are 9x9", 8' tall, cross beams are 3x8" 16' across & 24' long. Rafters are 2x6" & roof will be decked with 1" oak planks, felt, & a standing seam roof(Mueller) as soon as my knee heals from falling off the ladder!




Some of those nasty red cedar trees can also be rough sawn for extra heavy picnic tables. Used a clear spar finish.




And of course I couldn't have done this without my wife's help, she's a real trooper

I thought you said German folk lacked humor.

Great post.

That is some hard core documentation! Thanks for making the effort & time to post it. I have to go back through it slowly to absorb it all.

Bravo, David U and wifely boss! Outstanding attention to detail...right down to the awesome pic-a-nic tables.

Hey David...
when the pavillion is completed, would ya add it to the Human Habitat thread , along with your drawings and a little detail?

Fabulous post! Great planning. Great execution. Excellent attention to detail. Big round of applause! Have you put together a stocking and management strategy?

W O W !!! - -

"By reading the posts here at Pond Boss I have managed to avoid a lot of mistakes, still managed a few on my own & so will journal my experience with the hope it helps someone else."
_________________________________________________________________

Says it all! Very nice job. Anxiously awaiting final (filled) pics. Thanks for your time and excellent documentation.

Among the "everything" that's big in Texas, we must now include documentary posts. Incredible amount of info here, david.

Good ole' drawn-on-paper (and clearly so!) construction diagrams are not to be scoffed at. I would post my own blueprints, but it is too hard to fit a 2"x4" into the scanner.


Brettski, I believe we have been judged and found wanting in some manner.

P.S. david, your official Post Boss Forum "Too Many Daves" nickname is "Sunny Jim". (If you had found more native rock, I would have considered "Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face".)

Fantastic David. I'm certain your well-documented project will not only be a valuable resource, but an inspiration to future pond builders.

I guess I never got that memo. Oh well it's too late to change now.

Great documentation David. Beautiful countryside.

Awesome project!!!

Thanks for posting all the great pictures and comentary.

I was a little confused on the creek issue and cutting down the trees. Were you not able to do anything along the creek? If so, why did you cut down the trees in that area?

The pier/retaining wall is interesting. I'd be interested to hear how it holds up as it's a pretty unique aproach. With all retaining walls, there is a very strong ratio on height and what it takes to maintain that heighth. Having water really creates some new factors to consider.

Thanks,
Eddie

David - Awesome project and documentary!

I like all your cool big boys toys (Cat, 4-wheeler, tractors, welders, trailers, air compressor, etc.) I was able to identify with your tree felling prowess, been there, done that!

It is great that your wife (project manager) works with you. A couple that builds ponds together stays together.

You are well on your way to a 5 Coroners Pond Award, the highest honor out there.

Hey David, I would think twice about leaving those green oaks down there for structure. When the water comes in, they release a lot of tanin. The stuff is absolutely lethal. I did it on my ponds just SSW of Bowie. It sounded like a good idea but was a major catastrophe. I stocked twice and the fish died within hours. I had to pump it dry and start over. If you haven't burnt it, better get started.

David, I'm on a new PC and having problems responding to your EMail. I have no idea about the % of wood per amt of water. At the time this happened to me, none of the "Brains" that I contacted knew anything about it. However, all of the old time dozer drivers knew about it. I fought it with huge amounts of chlorine and it only weakened a little. My pond was one acre and I used enough for about 20 Olympic sized swimming pools. No good. A year later I started pumping. That hurts in NNW Texas. That is why I said BURN IT NOW.

Very Nice! I have a couple of questions.

1. How did you ruff cut the timber for your pavillion. Do you rent/own a portable sawmill? Also, how did you mill the cedar for the tables. Very nice workmanship on both!

2. Is the rock formation that you descibe as "the ponds origin" a spring, a seep, or what? Was it flowing during construction?

Again,
Killer project and thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!

Eddie

We are yet to sort out the "Oak Use" question. Dave is scared to death of it and rightly so from his experience. On the other hand we use lots of oak and have never had a problem and in fact it helps a lot for obvious reasons. I guess it all depends. If you added a bunch of lime in building the pond I doubt the oak would cause a problem as the tannic acid would be offset. There are benefits in some cases to fish health from tannins.

I appreciate everyone's interest and responses to this project. The Oak tannin thing is a concern. There has been no lime treatment of soil. Perhaps I could throw a few sacrificial fish into the 3' of water and see what happens. The rock formation is simply where several gullies converge from off my property to form the beginning of the pond. The Oak and Cedar were rough cut by Woods of Mission Timber(Bob Pugh owner) in Sanger TX. A very interesting place to visit

...or use the chain saw to create a pile of chips and wrap them in cheese cloth with a rock for ballast. Put it in a tub of water for a couple of days, then add fish and watch 'em...? (Oak tea, if you will)

David, Lusk once posted on why oakis bad news in some areas and no problem in others. I don't remember the technicalities but in North Texas it is real bad. Like all water issues, it has everything to do with soil types.

Or like Brettski says, you can take a bucket of the pond water, toss in a chunk of fresh oak wood and wait a week or so. If it starts discoloring or turning sorta black, save your money and don't bother stocking. Lots easier to burn the wood now and use rocks for structure.

Dave, I imagine tannin/ tannic acid content could vary with the species of oak tree. Some have red, fleshy bark, others have thinner and lighter bark. I also think the leaves may be a factor. For example, if a big oak tree goes into a pond leaves and all, it could add significantly more tannin. If the tree is stripped, and just the trunk and larger branches go in, it would probably add less significant amounts of tannin. I also imagine that leaves and bark of trees felled in late summer and fall contain more tannin than trees felled in late winter and spring. Some oak species have bark that contain potent yellow or red dye, which could be more a main source of the staining than the tannin.

Hey David,
...been awhile. How goes the pond part of the project?

Hey Brettski, Thanks for asking. Sorry I wasn't able to make the convention, but my job is such that I work 7 days a week until this time of year.Would have been nice to put a face with the many contributors to Pond Boss. I have a picture as of May that shows the pond filling. It's lower now as the rain has stopped & it's hot as Texas is in July/Aug..



I put some 2-3" Redear & Coppernose in the pond in March(with FH), but now not sure if I should stock my bass & HSB this fall or wait till next spring..Of course, Would like to stock ASAP always in a hurry..lol

Man, did that pavillion/shelter and earthen pier turn out GREAT! Looking again at your drawings, it appears that you anticipate the water level to come up very close to the tops of the horizontal slats (guard rails?) on the earthen pier. Correct?
(the drawing shows about 8 ft of overall height on the horizontal members, but the pic seems to be so much more...?)

David U, throw some aluminum sulfate in there, clear that water so you can have your fishery! Alum worked wonders for my pond and the water after construction looked just like yours. for the $$$ you have spend, another $300-500 should make that water look like liquid gold, just watch your PH levels. I'm sure we can get you chemical suppliers in your area that carry it.