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Well considering I was probably wrong about the culprid being a GSF since I was new to the site and Theo later said they were probably just stunned BG. But I did have HBG so they might have some light GSF srain in them I do apologize. It was due to reading posts about not stocking HBG and how they will take over your pond. At least I am trying to learn.

However no matter the above on nipple removal I will have to draw the line at.

More civilized note again.......remember we are sworn to professional curtesy......I like my inflatable alright it is a stealth way of getting around. I also can see where your rigid sit on top would be nicer and more comfortable. But I wanted something that could be dragged over obstructions easiely. It is also easy to get around. Inflates with a cordless inflator in less than 5 mins..deflates in seconds, and packs into a bag that looks like an oversized shopping bag.

My compliments to the GSA



Last edited by Bill Webb; 11/03/07 01:00 PM.

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Last night, I bought 40 4-6" RES from my local fish guy and stocked them in the pond. And today, I fished for about 4 hours and a few of my buddies fished for an hour, and we threw out about 20 3-5" GSF. I caught around 30 more 2-3" and released them back in the pond. Does this slot limit sound good to you Theo: under 3" = release back into pond
3-5" = dispose of (but explain why to each individual
fish in honor of GSA)
5" and up = release back into pond


-Chris
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Without better analysis, that's probably the slot I'd use.

Check the GSF mouth sizes; you would want to remove mouths large enough to (easily) swallow a FHM.


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"(but explain why to each individual
fish in honor of GSA)"

This makes everything OK.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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 Originally Posted By: bbjr
3-5" = dispose of (but explain why to each individual fish in honor of GSA)


Explain, apologize, and praise the individual fish for the selfless sacrifice that fish is making for the good of the entire population.


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 Originally Posted By: Bill Webb
However no matter the above on nipple removal I will have to draw the line at.


You are not being very reasonable about this Bill.

 Originally Posted By: Bill Webb
I like my inflatable alright it is a stealth way of getting around. I also can see where your rigid sit on top would be nicer and more comfortable. But I wanted something that could be dragged over obstructions easiely. It is also easy to get around. Inflates with a cordless inflator in less than 5 mins..deflates in seconds, and packs into a bag that looks like an oversized shopping bag.


I don't really have to move our kayak very far so I just drag it along the ground so portability is not a real issue for me. An inflatable kayak would be much more portable. Stealth is what I really like about a kayak. I started with a canoe but they are WAY less stable than a kayak and trust me you don't want to have one adult and two 10 year old girls in a canoe - this lesson I learned the hard way in the middle of a lake one sunny afternoon. I really like the effortless paddling and stability of a kayak. Ricki and I have done both ocean and freshwater kayaking and really like to kayak. Heck the work kayak is even fun to say.


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Yes I agree a kayak would be much better than a canoe. I dont like them at all. I have a 16' johnboat and use it like a canoe, use a paddle, not oars. But it would be too hard to get and out of the river I was doing the turtle stuff with. Also there is a creek about a quarter mile from me that flows into probably a two hundred acre slew of a large lake that I once walked back to that is full of beaver dams, hog wallows, deer tracks, etc. I also think it would be good to fish in closer to the lake than where the highway crosses and I would put in at in late winter when the crappie spawn. May in the shallow area of the slew when LMB spawn later in the spring. I could never get my john boat in and if I did couldnt drag it out because of the steepness going down to the creek. But I think even a rigid kayak would be easier to move around than even a john boat.

You get you, your wife and two girls into the kayak, it must be a big one? Or just two at a time?


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BBJR, the predators you keep are a personal choice. You are correct about them occupying different niches. However, they all breathe the same finite amount of oxygen and, when feeding, will leave their niche area to jump on some groceries. I always try to err on the side of too much forage since they can be double tough to re-establish.

Every fish in the pond, even the forage fish, is a predator on some other smaller fish. Mostly, they prey on their own species. Open water predators like the HSB feed in the shallows when they don't have open water prey to clobber. And, a CC over 2 pounds is is a top of the line predator.

I think of a pond as a pasture or even a forest. An increase in the rabbit population means more coyote survival until they eat all of the rabbits. Then Mama Nature reduces the numbers of predators through natural selection. Too many deer or cattle mean habitat destruction after they overeat their forage with the land suffering when the forage is denuded. Like fish, cattle and deer prefer different forage and occupy different niches but will cross to the others forage base when necessary.

The predator/prey balance is a constant concern for a pond owner who wants a well managed pond. Too many fish in a pond causes water quality problems and Mama Nature always gets even.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Dave,

Nice analogy with the pasture/forest.

I have been chatting with Bill Cody via e-mail about my situation, and will either be adding some more YP or FHM/GSH to the mix depending on whether or not the YP have been raised on pellets (I am awaiting an answer from Jones on this). Hopefully, between this addition, the crayfish I will add in the spring, the feeding program, and the FHM pond I will have, I should have plenty for the predators to eat.

I initially chose the amount of YP that I did, b/c I read a lot about the possibility of them over-reproducing, and did not want a stunted population. I figured that since I was stocking juvenile/adult YP that I should stock fewer than the normal recommendation.

I am not opposed to fishing if I need to balance things out . I am actually worried about over-fishing the pond. I could go out there everyday after work if the pond allowed it, but I think I may have to keep it to a once a week thing.

Speaking of which, how often to some of you guys fish your ponds? and, how much is too much?


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Dave,
I forgot to touch on the water quality issues in the last post. Let me know what you think about the following: My pond is built in sandy soil (less than 10% clay content) and is continually being repleshished by an underground spring (I really need to get more info on this to see how much is actually getting "pumped" in) and the FHM pond is going to recirculate water from the main pond through the FHM pond over a waterfall and through a 30-40' "stream bed" that will contain vegetation and rocks. The reason I'm saying this, is that I believe both the spring's replenishment and the sandy soil's drainage along with the flowage from the waterfall and streambed will act as natural filters and help clean up the water quality. Do you think this will help? or not enough to matter?


-Chris
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 Originally Posted By: bbjr
I have been chatting with Bill Cody via e-mail about my situation, and will either be adding some more YP or FHM/GSH to the mix depending on whether or not the YP have been raised on pellets (I am awaiting an answer from Jones on this).

Please let us know what you find out. Bruce's inquiring mind wants to know (me too!).


 Originally Posted By: bbjr
Speaking of which, how often to some of you guys fish your ponds? and, how much is too much?

As often as I can. This year, that worked out to about 1.5 hours per week, which seems to be an amount (for 1 acre) that allows for really good fish catching action each time. The results after I missed a week 2-3 times were just plain awesome.


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 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
The predator/prey balance is a constant concern for a pond owner who wants a well managed pond. Too many fish in a pond causes water quality problems and Mama Nature always gets even.


Excellent point Dave. Its real easy as a pond meister to have a tendency use adding more fish as a solution to a pond problem. My guess is that many times simply selective culling would be better than adding more biomass. To me it parallels a home aquarium, which probably most of us have had at one time or another. You always want to add a new colorful fish. And then one day you have a tank chock full of fishies and suddenly you have water quality issues. It never occurred to me (dense at times, I'll admit it) that a pond is a huge aquarium but without a forced filtration system and for many of us without aeration and without a 20% water change every week or two. The whole idea of calculating total biomass per volume of water was a revelation to me. (Biology and science were never my best subjects in school, hence the bean counter profession, heck I'd have been a doctor if it wasn't for all that medical stuff).


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 Originally Posted By: Bill Webb
You get you, your wife and two girls into the kayak, it must be a big one? Or just two at a time?


The two girls was a one shot deal. I only have a two person kayak that Ricki (wife) and I fish from.


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bbjr, not sure if it will naturally filter. An awfully lot of the waste will sink to the bottom where it will stay. However, that rate of replenishment is encouraging. Post back to Cody about aeration if that might be an option for you. Pretty fascinating situation. We understand that adding fertilizer to moving water doesn't work but, for the same reason, you just might be able to overstock given the water exchange rate. Of course, you will still have a forage/prey ratio situation to consider. There has to be some right balance. I believe that I would analyze the dissolved oxygen content, PH and alkilinity prior to stocking.

BTW, some of us have found that fishing doesn't always result in catching.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus

Please let us know what you find out. Bruce's inquiring mind wants to know (me too!).


I didn't get a responce back today, but it has been taking a couple days or so on average for them to get back to me with answers.


 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus

As often as I can. This year, that worked out to about 1.5 hours per week, which seems to be an amount (for 1 acre) that allows for really good fish catching action each time. The results after I missed a week 2-3 times were just plain awesome.


Glad to hear that, Theo.


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
The predator/prey balance is a constant concern for a pond owner who wants a well managed pond. Too many fish in a pond causes water quality problems and Mama Nature always gets even.


 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Excellent point Dave. Its real easy as a pond meister to have a tendency use adding more fish as a solution to a pond problem. My guess is that many times simply selective culling would be better than adding more biomass. To me it parallels a home aquarium, which probably most of us have had at one time or another. You always want to add a new colorful fish. And then one day you have a tank chock full of fishies and suddenly you have water quality issues. It never occurred to me (dense at times, I'll admit it) that a pond is a huge aquarium but without a forced filtration system and for many of us without aeration and without a 20% water change every week or two. The whole idea of calculating total biomass per volume of water was a revelation to me.


Great points from both of you. So, just for clarification...Do you guys think I am "pushing the envelope", or going beyond what is feasible? I don't mind the challenge if it is doable, it helps keep me interested in my hobbies. I have a tendancy to try unconventional things, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't, but it makes things fun and rewarding in the long run.

Last edited by bbjr; 11/05/07 08:49 PM. Reason: format quotes

-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
BTW, some of us have found that fishing doesn't always result in catching.


All too often forgotten, and all to often reminded of .

 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
bbjr, not sure if it will naturally filter. An awfully lot of the waste will sink to the bottom where it will stay. However, that rate of replenishment is encouraging. Post back to Cody about aeration if that might be an option for you. Pretty fascinating situation. We understand that adding fertilizer to moving water doesn't work but, for the same reason, you just might be able to overstock given the water exchange rate. Of course, you will still have a forage/prey ratio situation to consider. There has to be some right balance.


Unfortunately, I have no idea as of right now, how much is getting replenished. I have owned the property for a little over a month, and I was talking to the previous owner after the closing, and he told me that when they were digging, he seen 4-5 springs "shoot out like a garden hose". I am going to go into the pond next spring with some snorkeling gear and a wet suit and do some investigating. Theo had mentioned in one of my other threads, that I may have an artesian pond. I did some research and found that conditions are right in parts of my county for this to occur, and there are atleast 10 artesian wells in my county. This is encouraging and I am hoping for the best.

 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
I believe that I would analyze the dissolved oxygen content, PH and alkilinity prior to stocking.


I tried doing a search the other day with "dissolved oxygen" in the title to try to find out what people were using to test their's with, but I came up emtpy. Any suggestions on meter type/brand or anything? I've been watching ebay the last few days, but have no idea if I should be looking for an analog or digital or any features that I will need.


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Here are a couple pics of the pond. Sorry about the quality, I had to use my camera phone b/c the battery was dead on my wifes camera.

Here is the north side of the pond where the beach will be going.



Here is a shot looking south.



-Chris
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Oops, that meant to read "my wife's camera"...I only have one.


-Chris
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I don't have a DO meter. They're too expensive unless you use them a lot as a Pro. It's more sensible to have it done.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Dave, is this something that the DNR or a state governing agency will do? or do I need to hire someone? If I need to hire someone, what kind of businesses may offer this service? (BTW, I don't think I have anyone in the pond/lake management business nearby.)


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Dave, don't worry about answering that question. I need to spend some time over in the water chemistry section of the forum, anyways.


-Chris
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FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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Here is a link to water testing that answers my question in case anyone else was curious http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id/1#import


-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp
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