Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain adding new forage for bass in northern california

I live near Redding Calif. I own a 3 acre pond. 35 years old. 22 feet deep when full, drops 10-13 feet during summer. started small pellets 2 years ago for the gills with great success. bass are ok, a few 3lbs, a few to 6-8. every year lots of 12-14 inchers. Ive been harvesting 15-20 12s each year. the bass struggle thru the winter with the males very thin, the females fat with eggs. summer and fall plenty of gills. I would like to explore the intro of shad or if possible talapia etc. New to this sight and will start to review posts. suggestions would be great, I will post some pics. Thanks, Allen

CP, HI, i wondered when you would start posting here, and welcome to the forum. if you havent bought "raising trophy bass" by bob lusk, that would be a good start.

WOW.....10 to 13 feet drop over summer. mine goes 5-7 feet w/ minimal leakage, mostly evap...do you have some seepage below yer dam?

i am not the best one here (by any stretch of the imagination) to advise on culling strategy, but to get a discussion going for you, it sounds like yer thinking in the right direction......some of my meager thoughts......w/ 3 acres you might consider blocking off a small section as a grow out pond for (BG) forage and continue to evaluate relative weights of bass and cull appropriate slot sizes. I think one key to the BG forage is to have plentiful BG in all sizes (year classes). if you can determine particular size ranges that are missing (like 4 to 6-inchers for example) you need to manage to bring those numbers up while culling the (stunted) bass sizes that feed on BG that size.

let the experts chime in on these points, and again.....welcome.

Howdy, Cordy. Are you sure you BG are really BG and not GSF? There seem to be a lot of those in California, and while they make an excellent trophy sunfish when managed properly, they do not provide as good a forage for bass as BG due to their lower fecundity.

Cordy welcome to the PB forum. It sure sounds like you need to take out more LMB in the skinny size. IIRC tilapia are not allowed in Calif. (not sure on that though). TShad use a different niche in the pond (do not compete to a high degree with BG for food)so are an option for forage. They require a good plankton base as that is their food. You might have a hard time establishing them in a LMB crowded pond. With your NCal location (and ? elevation) water temps could be a problem as TShad have a lower lethal temp of 42 F + -. Do you know your winter water temps? If water temps allow trout are an excellent LMB forage. Interesting situation. Gather some facts about the pond like plankton (via water depth visibility and color) and temps and we can collectively come up with some good thoughts.

Basically you are correct Ewest, at least as far north as Redding California. From what I have determined in my research, a permit can be obtained for Tilapia south of the Tehachapi Mountains, which for those not familiar with California geography is an South West/North East Mountain range that is just north of the county of Los Angeles. Anyone north of the Tehachapi Mountains cannot obtain a permit for Tilapia. Since DIED and I are significantly north of that and Redding is North of us it's a no go for Tilapia.

Oh, and Hi Cordy and welcome to Pond Boss. Glad to have another Californian here, we're gaining in numbers!

A 10-13 foot drop in pond depth seems excessive to me. As DIED said we drop 5-7 feet per year. I can't imagine that you would have double the evaporation rate that we have.

As Theo said make sure that you have Blue Gill in your pond. I originally only had Green Sunfish and, as much as I like them, they are not as good as a forage base as BG are. Once I added BG my LMB got much fatter.

I don't know if you can stock Tfins or not. I do know you can stock Golden Shiners.

Basically in California it works like this: If you want the fish and it would be beneficial to have in your pond then you probably aren't allowed to have it (Tilapia, Tripiloid Grass Carp, etc). It you ARE allowed to have it then the you might have to apply for a permit to get it, and you can only get it from a registered Aquaculturist (spelling?). Oh sure we can get LMB, BG, GSF, RES, and the more common fish like that but go outside the ordinary and forget about it.

If you have a fish supplier in your area I would contact them, they can pretty much give you the low down on what is allowed.

Sorry to butt in here as I don't have any knowledge to help Cory in his problem. But I have read about the Tilapia restrictions in Ca. before and there has to be something I dont understand. It seems to be backwards. In the south where they might not die out they are allowed, in the north where tempatures would keep them from being an invasive species they aren't allowed.

What's the deal?

Bill

I believe they are government restrictions

But government restrictions usually have an objective in therory, i.e. this case not letting an exotic species invade native habitate. But it seems they would die in the north and live in the south.

What am I missing?

Unfortunately Bill logic and California government regulations do not go hand in hand. I sort of get the Tilapia restrictions in that they could be released into to a body of water in Nor Cal in which they could potentially survive the winter. I don't know which ones (DIED would probably know) but some of the lakes in the lower elevations probably would stay warm enough to allow Tilapia to winter over. But sterile grass carp are highly regulated also. I would love to have some sterile grass carp. My pond is not attached to any water way - there is no where for them to go. I do have a spillway but it essentially doesn't go anywhere. But when I inquired about getting a few Tripiloid (sp?) Grass Carp I was basically told forget it, won't happen.

Oh and while I'm at it tax code and logic don't coexist either.

Thanks for the answer Jeff. I did Army basic training at Fort Ord in the winter, and it never froze but I was sure if got down into at least the fifties at night (pretty nippy standing in line for breakfast at 4:30am) but then had nice cool days. And Monterey is what 100 or so miles south of San Fransico and Redding is a lot north of SF right?

I did say in theory, not necessarly in common sense practice. Congress always has its reasons, they just would usually not like us to know them. Sometimes the reason is if you will do this dumb thing I will let you do your dumb thing. Or if we can't agree we will just make the law so ambigous that the IRS will have to figure it out. And we can claim that's not what we intended. Then the real knot heads take over, lol.

Theo, you deal in natural laws, engineers just never understand. Because there are restictions, just make us accountant types dig for reasons and exceptions. No loop holes in physics.

What's the deal around Los Angeles being able to have them, just thought they have already gone to hell, lol? Or not enough native stuff to hurt?

Thanks for the reply Jeff.

My guess is that the authorities figure that LA is already so full of unnatural species as it is that no one would even notice if another type of freak is introduced. Of course that is just JHAP's opinion and not necessarily that of management. But then again JHAP has spent more time than he would like in LA and therefore probably has a more accurate opinion of LA than management. Just spend a few hours in Hollywood on any given weekend evening and you will have proof that some unnatural/undesirable/unimaginable hybridization has in fact already taken place.

So have I. LA is just like Detroit, with palm trees.