Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Too many fish to start with ?

I am planning to stock my new pond. It is 3/4 acre, mostly clay/sandy bottom, aerated (1 VMAX diffuser), has max 12 ft depth, avg depth 7 ft, has many built in rises/drop-offs, large concrete/rock pile, submerged logs, large tree trunk laid across two island humps, 10x100 ft rock/gravel bed at 4 ft depth, and geothermal pond loops (6 x 600 ft x 1 in diam) in the bottom of the 12 ft section. Live south of Houston, TX. A local pond mgmt/fish hatchery suggested stocking 750 2-3" CNBG, 250 2-3" Redear SF, and 20 lbs FHM. I want to stock some F1 LMB next spring. They recommended a feeder to support this. So here are my questions:
1. Is this too high a density to start with ?
2. Should I opt to go with 3-5" fish and cut down on number ?
3. How much fish food (and what brand) would this quantity of fish consume ?
4. Could I stock fewer fish and then go on a ferilization program in place of feeding ?

They also suggested stocking the bass right now instead of waiting, but everything I read says to give the forage fish a head start.

Comments, suggestions, new ideas ??

Thanks for your time.

Greetings, archer (Leader of the Gorgonites???)

I will tackle 3 (OK, 2) of your questions:

1. Seeing as how you have 3/4 acre, I'd cut the numbers back to 500/250 BG/RES. You might get enough FHM spawning yet this year in Texas to warrant all 20 lbs now; 10 pounds now and possibly more next year might make more sense if you were up North.

2. Largely a matter of available funding.

3. Probably not a whole lot of feed at first. I'd get a 50 pound bag and trial feed VERY small quantities until the fish begin consuming it regularly. CW sez feed no more than the fish consume in 10-15 minutes. 50 lbs would probably last the rest of the year.

WRT brand, many of us feed Purina which is good stuff. For these small fish the best choice might be Aquamax Carnivore 400, a small sized 40% protein pellet. Hungry fish will pick (peck?) at pellets too small for them to swallow, but starting smaller makes sense to me. Game Fish Chow (32% protein, asorted size pellets) is a slightly lower priced alternate.

There are other excellent brands of feed that PMs here use, but I have no experience with and very little knowledge of them personally.

I'll take a stab at 4.

Fertilization has its strengths and weaknesses. If your water is naturally fertile, you don't need it and is no substitute for proper stocking. Do a water test for alkilinity and then make a sechi disk to determine your visibility and the plankton base. The forage fish will naturally reproduce and a bluegill can spawn at 3.5 to 4 inches. It is just a matter of time until they get to the proper size and numbers to support predators. This leads into your question regarding timing of bass stocking. Most of us disagree with stocking of predators with the forage(We don't sell fish). My usual advise is "When the bass can go to sleep with their mouth open and wake up with a full belly, it's time to stock them". A parallel: How many cows would you stock on a newly planted pasture?

I would PERSONALLY stock 2 to 3 inch BG or CNBG and let them grow.

See this archive on fertilization.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96127#Post96127

You can use larger fish with fewer of them. You can stock 2in LMB with the 2-3 in BG and adult FH. I like the wait method better. I like to stock both 2in BG along with a few 4-5in BG. That speeds up the process and IMO reduces the risk of loss.

Ask the hatchery where you buy the fish if they will sell you 20 lbs of the correct size of food for the fish to get you through this year. For 2"-3" CNBG you want a pellet 1/8" dia. Do not accept the hatchery line that the small fish will eventually eat the larger pellet when softened. This will occur, BUT by the time the pellet has softened it will have lost/dissolved a goodly amount of valuable nutrition/vitamins from the pellet. Try to start with a new 50 lb bag in spring of 2008. Note, You do not have to feed the fish or fertilize for the number and size that you are initially buying. If your pond has at least normal or minimal fertlity for your area you will get some producivity, fathead spawning, and reasonable growth from 2"-3" CNBG. But fertilization or feeding will cause slightly faster BG growth and more FH reproduction. NOTE that feeding pellets is also form of fertilization of your pond and the plankton productivity will be more when feeding pellets.

Fertilization using inorganic fertilizer is an option but first read old posts about the troubles caused by improper fertilization by novices.

Thanks for the info. Some follow ups:

1. Turns out the fish farm has only 3-5" RES, so would you cut back on the 500/250 mix if using 1-3" CNBG ? RES may act as predator ?

2. If I feed Purina Gamechow (I can get locally for $17.50/50lb bag) to the 1-3" CNBG, should I expect them to spawn before next spring ?

3. Since it was recommended to cut back to 500 CNBG instead of 750, would you still go with 20 lbs FHM ?

4. Lastly, they were recommending 75 1-3" F1 LMB, is this too many for 3/4 acre and 500 CNBG, even if I feed ?

I also PERSONALLY like the idea of waiting on LMB, even if only to see if other fish survive my mistakes !!!

I have been reading stuff on here for over a year as we built home and pond. Most all of the ideas about design and cover were taken from here.

You ask "RES may act as predator ?" Do not worry about this for what you are planning to do. RES may eat a few minnow larvae but not enough to cause concern or measurable loss. Larger RES will feed on other larger invertebrate items than smaller sized BG.

You ask "If I feed Purina Gamechow (I can get locally for $17.50/50lb bag) to the 1-3" CNBG, should I expect them to spawn before next spring ?" For the fish and sizes you are stocking Only feed Gamechow if the fish you buy are ALREADY eating Game show which I highly doubt they are. Just about all of your RES regardless of size will not eat Gamechow pellets for you. Thus no game chow this year.

I doubt that you will get a very large percentage of 3" CNBG in the 1"-3" mix. If you do, you are darn lucky. Most will be 1"-2". They will not spawn even it TX until July or Aug 2008, - maybe if your very lucky, mid to late June. Larger RES (4"&5") are likely to spawn in June 2008.

"Since it was recommended to cut back to 500 CNBG instead of 750, would you still go with 20 lbs FHM ?" Yes and if you add LMB this fall add another 20-30 lbs FHM in spring 2008.

The fish farm has their own feed pellets they use (and of course recommend). It is 40% protien/11% fat. It is also $35/50 lbs. So how do you ever get your fish over to a brand that they were not raised on ? Do I just finish out the year on their food and then switch to gamechow after winter warm up ?

I take it that it is acceptable to stock the 75 1-3" F1 LMB even though the CNBG will not have yet spawned by spring 08 ?

Would the 3-5" CNBG spawn any earlier, especially if fed ?

I would like to have some sort of fun catch and release fish for the kids by summer 08. They are not picky, just something to stretch the line.

I wouldn't mess with any type of 1" fish. They are all eyes and tail with questionable survival.

My personal preference is 2 to 3 inch BG or CNBG. 20 pounds of fatheads sounds, to me, like about 15 pounds of overkill. Once established, I would go with 5 to 6 inch LMB.

Have you considered shopping around for an alternative fish supplier?

Whatever size BG you stock now, your kids should be able to C&R them next year. Forage fish may be at their most aggressive in a new pond before the LMB get big enough to scare some brains into them.

The LMB will be living on mostly FHM for a year or so; by the time they have wiped out the FHM the CNBG should be spawning. 3"-5" CNBG would spawn sooner than smaller ones; judging from up here I would not expect a spawn from them this year but ASAP next year.

My 2 cents worth given your goals.

Early fall 07
300 2in CNBG
75 4-5 in CNBG
100 3-5in RES
10 lbs FH
Feed what they have been eating until water temps drop to 55F (I assume small pellets) then stop feeding until early March 08 (water temps 50 and rising).

Early Spring 08
10 lbs of FH
Start feeding what they were eating and over time mix in GFC. By then they will be big enough to eat all sizes of GFC.

The large CNBG and RES should start to spawn in March-April 08 in your location and the small CNBG next summer. That will give you 3 full year classes of CNBG/RES plus FH by next summer when you can stock the LMB.

Summer 08
75 2-4in F-1 feed trained LMB
They will spawn spring 09

In the meantime read all you can here on water quality , carrying capacity and pond mgt. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I agree 20 lbs of FHM are overkill unless you stock the bass this fall 07 or spring 08. If you are impatient and stock bass before late next summer you will need lots of minnows to keep the bass growing until panfish are spawning good. The philosophy of late stocking of LMB produces the best growth rates for the bass. If that is not your goal then I have seen bass grow at a "fair rate" when stocked initially with the first stockings. Just don't expect big bass quick with the early bass stocking plan.