Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Hook Shy Pacu?

Some of you may recall that I've been running an experiment on the use of red-bellied Pacu in ponds and started the experiment this past January with a few 2-3 inch fish which were grown-out in an indoor facility and stocked in the ponds around April 1.

The results thus far have been absolutely stunning to me and just a little on the scary side. This evening I decided to try to catch a big hook shy Florida LMB. I rigged up a live 4 inch CNBG and sure enough hooked a 10 pound class Florida LMB that flared its gills as it threw the CNBG back at me in a head over tail jump. A second attempt at another Florida provided a most surprising result...a 2.7 pound Pacu that measured 14.5 inches. To add shock to the surprise, this same fish has now been caught 4 times in a variety of ways since being stocked around April 1.

The good news is that this Pacu is not hook shy...the bad news may be that it ate a live 4 inch CNBG which was impaled on a circle hook. The Pacu were intended to be looked at as a possible grass carp replacement....not a mainline predator.

These fish are growing at about 1 pound a month and at that rate should provide some interesting fishing this fall...assuming there are any other fish left in the pond. For a running set of pictures of these amazing fish go to my web site at:

http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/grasscarp.htm

and scroll down to see the sequence of pictures, including the one from this evening. As the summer goes on, I'll post additional pictures of this interesting fish.

That is truly awesome and interesting. Please keep the reports coming. I'd love to toss a few Pacu in my Nebraska ponds for the summer and see the looks on peoples' faces when they catch them.

Weird concepts about tilapia are driving me crazy as well.

You guys are going to make my early retirement short-lived and I love it.

ML, about 6 weeks ago, I put a couple of tiny pacu in my minnow pond just for fun and curiousity. They already appear to weigh nearly a pound. They will eat as long as I stand there feeding them. Their growth rate seems to be world class. I also noticed that they are omnivores. I saw one hit a gambusia, and have also seen them hit floating junebugs and dragonfiles. I wish I could back off on the feed and see whether they feed on weeds, but I would have to starve the minnows too.

Bobad,

I guess this makes you and I members of RAD's Pacu club....or at least candidates for members.

If there is a faster growing freshwater fish anywhere, I'd be surprised. I used to think Tilapia were fast growing and they certainly are in comparison to most all of our common pond fish, but the Pacu is really something else, on an entirely different level. They have a great fight also....much like a Jack in saltwater.

It is curious to me as to why these fish aren't more often grown by comercial growers? They are reportedly great eating fish...and if they keep growing like this, I'll soon find out about eating them.

If you don't mind saying, Bobad, what's your plan with your Pacu? Continue in the minnow pond or let 'em loose in your larger pond? I'd really like to hear your observations going forward...this is one interesting fish and the more we can learn about it, the better.

Not at all. Glad to share.

Since I have seen how fast the pacu grow, and how gnarly they are, I think I'll release them into the main pond. I'll miss the daily feeding frenzy, but knowing those guys, I think it will continue in the main pond. Maybe they'll teach my BG to be aggressive, and my RES how to eat pellets.

If I could find a cheap source for pacu, I wouldn't mind stocking 25-50 a year just to have a dependable biting and hard fighting fish. Too bad they don't spawn until year 3. From what I've seen so far, their value for weed control is zilch. They simply like the feed too much. They wait for my arrival every afternoon, and practically take pellets out of my hand. I see no signs at all that they are snacking on the weeds around my minnow pond.

They're a great novelty fish, and should have good shock value for friends and relatives fishing my pond some day. I want to set up my BIL for a fishing follies movie. I'm spreading rumours that I have pirahna in my pond, and when they get to ~3 pounds, I will invite him to fish. I can't wait to see his face when he hooks 1 and sees those teeth.

"Maybe they'll teach my BG to be aggressive,..."
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I put in 50 lbs. of Talapia a month or so ago, and the BGs and HSB both seem more aggressive. Can I purchase Pacu at a pet store? I have an 800 gal. storage tank, concrete and open top, and have been raising a few RES and roseys. Guess I'll have to add a few Pacus.

Does anyone know the (lower) temperature tolerance for Pacu?

Theo, my knowledge base for this fish is skimpy at best, but several texts have said 60 degrees is the lower limit. I've proven that to be false already this spring. We had an unusual spring storm with some snow even that dropped water temps to 56 degrees on April 14. No loss of Pacu at all. This is one interesting fish.

Ahvatsa, I buy them from PetSmart @ about $5 per fish. I've located a source for them in Argentina, but I can't get past the customs requirements.

I've never caught a Peacock bass, always wanted to, but having caught these guys, I don't regret never catching a Peacock now....they couldn't be any more exciting than these fish. I've now caught them, without trying, on crankbaits, spinner baits, various flys, worms, and now a 4 inch live CNBG.

p.s. Ahvatsa, please let us know if you put some in your concrete tank...we've got to keep track of the potential members of RAD's Pacu club.

Yes, my original purpose was to find a better grass carp...but that objective has been overcome by events

I wasn't aware of the year three spawning. I certainly believe I can raise some spawners...all it takes is a biiggg tank. I could see these fish reaching 20 pounds easily in three years...heck, I'm expecting 5-6 pound fish this year. Do you know what they require for spawning? I'd be interested in building a small spawning pond just for Pacu if I knew what they needed to spawn.

I've been working on more possible cheaper sources and also working on the possibility of paying a fish grower to overwinter a large number of these fish.

There are a lot of unknowns that we need to run to ground on this fish, but the potential is staggering.

That big tearing sound everyone hears is ML pushing the envelope.

They (jokingly) asked me if I wanted some pacu when I picked up my tilapia. They opened the lid of a 6'x 8' tank and packed in there like sardines was some pacu pushing 20lbs. I asked how big they get and they said around 80lbs. That would be a heck of a fight on the end of a line!

This fall I'm thinking of looking at a solar powered swimming pool heater to create a localized area of higher water temperatures in my pond. I'm not sure if that would be the aquatic equivalent of opening pandora's box, or not. But it does make me wonder about the possibility of keeping your exotic fish alive year round, not to mention increase the winter growth rates, possibily, for my domestic fish. What do you mad scientists think

Howard,

Do you have any numbers on what the system is capable of doing? If we knew what the system could produce in terms of heat, knew the size of the pond, and your average winter temp, we could probably make a reasonable estimate of the effects on the water temperature of the pond...my friends like Theo and Burger would eat that up (heck me too)...but I'd guess unless the pond is very small, the effect of a solar heating system will be negligible on the overall pond winter water temps and because of mixing there would be minimal area of warmer water.

Now if you could isolate the area, actually use a swimming pool, you might be in business, again depending on the output of the system. Heck, I threw in a hot tub for the cause...the least you could do is dedicate a swimming pool.

When I first stocked them I read where they were not a real good fish market fish as they had a y shaped bone along their backbone. Someone was working on a cooking method toasting the bone and allowing the meat to be used in fish sticks and similar items.
No one who has eaten the 50 or so we have given away or eaten ourselves has ever complained about bones. The taste is excellent.
Mine are around 8 pounds in a little over two years, from about 1 3/4". I noticed that on the two occasions that I have slowed feeding or changed to a lower protein food the pacu have slowed or stopped growing. They will get fat when fed a lot, you can see it in their bodies, they apparently store up for the lean times. Don, another Thai pond guy had 12 pounders at 3 years and caught at least one on live bait. I have caught them on a rapala like lure but, later lost the lure when one took it into the bamboo.
They eat/attack all of my plants, but remember I started with 100. I have between 10 and 20 left and they will be catch and release only for a year or so.
And as for hook shy, mine school, so when one gets hooked the rest go into seclusion. That is if I am fishing the surface, fishing the bottom I can catch them all day and have caught one twice in the same session.
ML, have you thought of raising another set as a back up?

ML, you have heard this before, but I want to chime in and say what a very nice web site you have. It is wonderfully organized and a joy to poke around in, not to mention that it is really informative.
Thanks,
Lou

Rad,

Have you seen any evidence of spawning or spawning activity?

Regarding back-ups, yes, in fact I just stocked the "B" team and the "C" team is in the hot tub now. I'm hopeful I can catch some of the original "A" team this fall before cool down and carry them over through the winter as potential breeding stock...it sure is easy to get attached to these fish. I can readily see why folks like/enjoy them as pets.

heronblu,

I'm honored and humbled by your nice comments. Thank you...and poke around all you want. I update it when something interesting happens in the ponds, like the unfolding Pacu story. Usually that happens every couple of months at least.

ML,
My pond is about 1/3 acre. At this point, i have done no real research as to whether i can create enough heat to make a difference. Intuitively it seems that if if you could heat a pool, you should be able to create a small warm zone in a pond useing the same technology.I'll look into it more and update the board if it looks like it might work.

ML,
None yet, about once a month we net out 50 or so of the little guys and see what we have, so far it is almost all tilapia, with a very few silver barbs. My pacu are only about 2 1/2 years old.
Try as I may I can't find anything on breeding. I read that, in their home habitat they move from the rivers into lakes to spawn, but I don't know if they breed there as well. I will keep looking, they are breed here in my neighborhood but I haven't found the place yet.
Ml, have you provided a chew toy? Early on we had placed some 1/2 gallon plastic milk bottles around the pond for bouys when we raced electric boats. One was sunk and the other 3 had bite marks on the submerged parts. Give you some idea what they do to my water plants. I don't know if they are playing, mad or hungry.
Here is a not so helpful link:
http://www.aquaculture.org.gy/Technical%...ater%20Pacu.pdf

RAD,

I could only read the first three pages? I'd love to read the other chapters. Any suggestions? Those first three pages confirmed the three year spawning age that Bobad mentioned. Thanks for the link.

Chew toy? This is an interesting fish. I do have some plastic/rubber markers out. I'll keep an eye on them.

Hey Rad,

A chew toy? I guess that rules out letting the kids feed them by hand. They're getting kind of big for the minnow pond anyway, and stir it up badly when we feed. So,,, I guess I'll transfer them into the main pond as soon as I can get around to it.

Pacu an awfully fascinating fish, and I appreciate all your information. I know you told us how fast they grew many months ago, but I was still shocked when I saw it for myself. I guess it has to be seen to be fully appreciated. They are easy to get hooked on, so I have to find a cheaper source than Wally World.

Why do I have a uneasy feeling that this thread is somehow going to end up with Dr. Condello crossing Pacu with his enormous BG and ending up with a 10lb toothy mouthed BG hybrid that likes rawhide chew toys?

Bobad,
Aquarium shops might occasionally get one back because of the size and they might pass it along to you. Might be worth a try, also try an importer/wholesaler or an aquaculture supply house. I don't think they will breed, according to the article all breeding had to be induced, injections, doable but complicated, females mature at 3 yr and males at 4.
One study I saw used wild fish and at mature ages were in the 3 lb range, gives you some idea how fast they grow when fed in ponds. The other thing is that they are supposed to grow well with 15% protein, but mine almost stopped growing until I went back to 25%. I envy you guys that can get 35 and 40%.
A problem I have noticed is as they grew I used a longer shank hook trying to prevent them from cutting the line. It worked, but occasionally they would take the hook deep enough to endanger an eye. I cut the line, left the hook and went back to a smaller size. They started cutting the line between 2 and 3lbs.
Also I read where they are fin biters and I have seen lot of missing fin parts on my tilapia. I can't say for sure that is from the pacu because it didn't start until the barramundi were about a foot long, but it could be, just something else to watch for.
Kids around here swim with them and they still have all of their fingers and toes.

Yep, I'm there...had a couple of line cut-offs last evening and I figured it was the Pacu trying for catch number 5. It reminded me of saltwater fish and the need for a wire leader.

I've been on a "call" list with my local PetSmart where they will call me when a customer brings back a Pacu that gets too large for their home system, which frequently happens according to them. However, they haven't called.