Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Ohio EPA/Army corp of engineers( HELP)

What jurisdiction does Ohio Epa or army corps of engineer have on an agriculture ditch line?
I have a drainage ditch that runs through my property. These two goverment agencies have been informed that I built a pond ( 6 years to date) I was told I did not need a permit to dig my pond. This was from my County water and soil people who came out six years ago. Ohio epa is saying I have a stream and that gives them jurisdiction. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Also my county engineers says it is a drainage system, and it is on their maps?

epa is defining a ditch as a stream? guess i'm not surprised. so if they have jurisdiction over the ditch, i would presume that means you cant take water out of it, put water into it, or modify it in any way without an environmental impact report?? what is it about the ditch that epa is regulating? you dont have to answer this, but what do you want to do with it?

if ACOE defines it is a drainage system, it must lead to some creek river or stream which would probably add even more layers keeping you from using it how you want to on yer own property.

brian, tell us some more background. When you say that the man has "been informed that I built a pond," what do you mean? Did a neighbor drop a dime?

If they have some agenda behind their interest in your pond, I would suggest finding out exactly what the agenda is, in detail. They may not be the best source to find out.

If I had been contacted by any gov't agency with regard to my pond, and if I viewed that contact to be in any way negative, I would immediately be on the phone with my state and US Senators and Congressmen.

You may also want to consider getting a hold of a real estate/land use attorney; at least getting a line on one in case you end up needing them.

Well thanks for responding. My pond is a little shy of an acre and a half and was built in April, 2001. My neighbor to the south wanted me to put my emergency spill way so it would run on his property. Hence, because he did not own to the drainage ditch. Neighbor is now divorced, and wife has the house. Father of the wife is calling everybody he knows because they now do not want water to flow on there property, ever. Even though that is where the drainage tile dumped it six years ago before I built the pond. I refused and then he started call Gov agencies. First it was DNR, they came and inspected said I did not fall in there jurisdiction. And now EPA nad corp of engineers are involved. Saying I need and needed a permit to put a dam on my property( since it is a stream, SO EPA SAYS). So They want me to build my dam to their specifications, I think?
Now I do have an extra amount of drainage that goes through my property. I get water from the EAST, NORTH And a few acres from North West

Thanks brian.

I would immediately get in touch with state and federal politicians all the way up to your two US Senators.

For me, I would go straight to the US Senators and then come on down from there. When you call, you'll most likely get an aide. You should be prepared to succinctly tell you story, and back it up with a well written letter. Then, usually, that aide or another staffer will contact the top person at the agency that's pestering you. That's usually where things will end.

As Theo mentioned, it may not be a bad idea to locate a good land attorney in the event you have to get medieval on someone's butt.

What Sunil said is correct.

I do know that you cannot change where the water exits you property. Other that this, I'll keep quiet.

That I did not change, with exception of changing the emergency spillway, and really that did not change because the tile that came from the east would have been exiting at the same place. The whole south end of my land was totally wet and useless before I built the pond?

Don't mention it was wet and useless! You may have violated the Federal Wetlands Act

I take it it does not have to nbe labled prior(wetland)

That I don't know just be careful what you openly admit to. Maybe the experts can expand on this one as I seen it mentioned before on the forum.

I am just ticked that I had my pond for six years and this is just now coming to the surface, unbelievable!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think F.T. is saying is to be very careful what you say to any authority so as NOT to be on record for anything that could be used against you.

Once the **** hits the fan, you don't want to have to retrench and change course (or your story). Remember, that your story has to be easily conveyed to those who are going to help you. Those people need to be able to tell your story with the same consistency.

Jersey, when do we get to hear your story???

Well the EPA and the corp of engineers were out and they swear I have a stream and in rder for me to get a permit it will cost me $10.00 per lineal foot for a permit. I have approx 700 lineal feet that has been changed from an intermittant stream to a pond. $7.000.00 FFFFF bucks. unbelievable. I am going to
contact my county engineers and see what the maps say. They said if I can prove it is a drainage ditch that they would wave yje permit cost? Holy hell, my pond is 6 years old!! My fish are doing super and I am getting the vasoline jar out to spread on my ***

Brian,

What state are you located in? Here in Indiana they are digging up wetlands left and right and no one says anything. My county was 80 percent wetlands at one time.

Oops sorry. You did mention Ohio.

ohio

It sounds unfortunate as to how this has come about. Some comments on authorities of federal agencies. The Corps would be interested if you filled a wet land, placed fill in a navigable water way, or altered the course of a navigable waterway (section 10 and section 404). Under the dam safety program, they would also be interested if you have built a dam / impoundment where if it failed could endanger life or property down stream.

EPA would be interested in impacts caused by your activities which could pollute water or impact human health or the environment (e.g. clean water act or the National Environment Policy act, NEPA).

The fact that you do something on your property doesn't limit potential impacts to your property. Pollution of a stream or ground water, or flooding a neighbor would be of concern and would likely be covered by law.

I can't comment on your specific situation but I would go to the source and get some technical advice as to your options. Note that in many states, some of these authorities (such as NEPA) have been delegated to the state. Your worst enemy will be miss information. You should be able to get facts from the net also if you have the time to do the research.

Sounds like this thing is pretty far along.
Obviously, we need to be careful about giving "free" advice without knowing all of your details, but some things seem important to me.

Do you still have any information about the County water & soil people who came out six years ago and told you that you didn't need a permit.

I would try to find the name and number of anyone you dealt with and any paperwork you had. Even notes about any conversations you had with them, and/or dates may have relevance.

Another important point (I think): If they came up with a dollar amount that you have to pay, I would guess that they are not going to tear down your dam if you buck up. And, if they've given you a number ($10/ft, or $7,000), that means negotiation (to me anyway). Basically they've burped and given you the high end vasoline need. I'm not sure on this, but it may be a good idea to get them to give you that in writing (comments anyone?).

If my thought process is right, then an option is to get a good attorney and negotiate a settlement, but you could spend a few grand with a good attorney depending on the amount of back & forth that happens.

I still do feel that now is the time to go the the US Senator's office. They should help you for free, but donating $500.00 (more or less) will really get them fired up.

Sunil is right, and I dont want to change the subject, but is it not sad that if you donate $500 you will get better action.

If they called it a stream, a no rise study would have to be done by a engineering firm, of course that would have to be paid by you.

Brian,

Are you going to be at the conference? We're going to be talking about the types of issues you're facing now.

Not to say we're going to solve your problem, but it might be helpful for you to sit in on our talk at the conference. It might give you some direction and ideas.

Trent

no i am not going to be there

I have the county engineers trying to prove that it is a drainage system. They are pulling all the info on when and where and on what property this drainage system went on. If he can do that, it will save me on the lineal foot price. I know for sure that the land to the south of me was in on the work done. My grandparents own
240 acres to the north and they were part of it. There is one more property diretcly north of me that I am not sure about. so I am not sure what is going on. to me it is a buch of city slickers that do not know the area?

Brian,

I hate to hear about folks like you in this situation. Each USACOE district office is different...they each have their own "personality" if you will.

Find a good civil engineer that is familiar with your district office and has worked with them before. It's helpful for them to be proficient with hydraulics and hydrology, too. They will be able to provide you much help in this case.

Good luck!

Trent

Oh...forgot to mention...the county engineers may be helpful but somewhat limited, too, so I would look to the private sector for engineers, also. The money you spend may be worth your while.