Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Update on questionable stocking plan

I have been lurking on the sidelines for a while now, but wanted to give an update to the questionable stocking plan that our lake committee was given for the initial stocking plan on our second lake. To refresh your memories, here is the plan the POA decided on against my better advise.

35 acre lake, average 12 foot depth, maximum to 25 foot. Forage fish added 1st week of March, 2006
1500 CN 2-3"
1500 BG 2-3"
180lb. FH
12,000 adult TFS ( adult size stocked 3 weeks after the rest of the forage fish)
240 lbs. G Shiner
2400 F1
700 Florida (LMB added 3rd week of may, 2006)
Due to the drought, we only got to 25 acres coverage this year.

Well, I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised. We have been feeding regularly and religiously at 4 different places on the lake, starting immediately after the forage fish were stocked. The growth rate has been amazing. Last weekend I was doing a survey of the current crop, using a rod and reel. I measured and weighed each fish caught. Here are the results;

BG average length is 6-7" with weights at 8-9 oz. largest caught was 8" and went 12 oz. (a total of 15 fish were caught and weighed)

LMB average 8.5" with the smallest at 7", but the largest at 12.5". There were several above 10" length. Weights were in the 12-14 oz. range on average, but the one large bass weighed in at a whopping 1 lb. 3 oz. (I thought this was remarkable for a 9 month old bass).

So far I am pleased with the results. I noted at least 4 spawns of the BG this year. The shiner seem to have been wiped out by the bass, unless they have just gone to deep water and stopped coming to the feed. I note some shad activity in early morning, and there are still some minnows (although they may all be mosquito fish). We added 1700 redear in September from Todd Overton to add missing shell crackers. We had plenty of hydrilla and bushy pond weed growth this year since we have a clear new pond (water clarity is at least 5-6 feet), so I am relatively certain we will have a good survival rate on these even though they were added after the bass had some size. Water temperatures are still in the high 50's with the lowwest recorded temp so far at 54 degree. I continue to feed daily, and there are at least 200 regular BG at every feeding.

I plan on taking some pictures next time I do my "survey" and will try to post them. I also plan on being at the convention in March, and look forward to meeting all of you who attend.

Mike

Hi Mike, glad to hear that things are looking positive. I remember being a serious critic of the plan since it allowed for more LMB than BG and CNBG. I hope the 4 spawns will produce the sustainable forage base you will need for the future. If some shad make it through the winter, they may continue to provide an easy, open water meal and relieve the BG from some predation. The hydrilla and pond weed may have been your BG's best friend.

I don't understand the part about the lake being clear because it is new. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one. In another year I expect you will need a bunch of grass carp.
Looking forward to meeting you in March.

Keep good records. With the stocking plan chosen, I would expect bass growth rates to be good until the end of year two. At that point, I suspect bass growth rates to level off, and slow down dramatically. I would expect fast growth rates of initially stocked bluegill, due to low numbers and lack of competition. As your bass grow, their demand for food will increase. Remember, it takes somewhere around ten pounds of forage fish for a bass to gain one pound. Threadfin shad may be carrying the load shortly. So, if you lose your threadfin due to cold, you better restock them as soon as the lake warms next spring.
On the other hand, if this stocking program works long term, everyone needs to know about it, especially those of us who have bought into industry standards and stock much larger numbers with predictable success. Either way, what you guys are doing will make a good Pond Boss story in about three more years.

Those BG/CNBG spawns were undoubtedly saving acts of grace.

How big were the RES you added? Hopefully big enough to avoid predation.

I agree that the GSH probably got hammered pretty hard. They are IMO the least viable long-term forage species amongst those you put in (most likely to disappear the soonest).

I don't know shad about Threadfins, but they should make a good compliment to the bream in the forage base. May your Winters be mild enough that they never have temperature problems.

DD, could the soil fertility just be really low in that area, with the hydrilla and pond weed taking up a large chunk of the available plant nutrients?

I too recall being skeptical of the #s. Good progress so far though. I think you will need to keep a close eye on the #s and balance for a while. If the need arises you can add adult CNBG and TShad ( just before they spawn) to help set the table for those LMB. Here is the link to the prior thread which contains a good discussion.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000426;p=1

BTW, thanks for the update and please continue them in the future. It's important when you do something outside CW to let all the conservative naysayers know how it worked out. This expands (or reinforces) the envelope.

Theo, I don't know. That area is quite a ways from me and soil conditions can vary widely, especially in housing developments. I would have thought that runoff from fertilized lawns would have an effect on the water fertility/clarity. I guess it is possible that the plants will absorb most of the available nutrients. However, when the plants die, they should replenish. As I said, I don't really understand why a water hole in that part of the world would be clear.

By reference to another thread, Mike certainly understands water.

Some additional information.
The lake is clear, I think , due to being a new impoundment. There are only 7 homes on the lake so far, out of 37 lake side home sites. this may explain the lack of nutrients for an initial bloom last spring and summer (keep in mind that the dam was completed in late December and we only had 1/2 of the lake coverage by end of spring). We did not have much phytoplanckton bloom during the summer months, and so we ended with a very clear water lake. Hydrila and pond weed flourished during the summer months as it did in many lakes in this area.
The thought in the stocking program, as expressed by the biologist hired by the POA, was that the larger "more genetically superior" bass would predate on the smaller bass as well as the shiner and shad, and that stocking 2-3" BG would allow 3-4 spawns the 1st year, producing sufficient 2nd year forage. Time will tell.
Bob, what you say makes sense. We have received the second year stocking budget, and planned to add additional shad and shiner.
The Redear were in the 1-2" size and smaller. With the amount of grass, I am hopeful some survived and will add to the forage in future years.
Dave, the soil conditions here are typical of South Texas. A lot of sand, pine forest debris with the accompanying acidity, with winter addition of hardwood tannins in the spring. We have been supplementing runoff and rainfall with 150 gpm well water. The well has over 400 ppm alkalinity at 600 ppm total hardness as CaCO3. The well water added to the filamentous BG algae growth, and the ducks from lake Conroe added the grass issue. We stocked triploid white amour in the larger lake to try to handle the grass problem there. So far too little fish, to much weed.
I will keep records and post as I get more data.

Mike

Mike think about using a small part of the second year stocking budget on adult RES and CNBG to hedge your bet.

Ewest,
Sounds like a good idea. Lake committee meets next week along with the fishing club. I will bring ideas up at that time and try to get a consensus. Rule by committee is definitely a challenge. Sometimes I wish this was my lake instead of just one of the property owners. Having a 60 acre and 35 acre pond is great, but having to share and get ideas agreed to is a pain.
Mike

I need some new advise.
The lake we repaired has developed some additional problems. There now appears to be a significant leak that is preventing the lake from filling. We got to 25 acres before the level started to drop. Current lake level has dropped 29" in the past 3 months. The developer has agreed to conduct another engineering study and do what ever repairs are needed to insure we get a full lake. This will likely mean we drop the level another few feet. This will reduce the surface area to 15-20 acres. Since the stocking program was designed for 35 acres, I am thinking we need to reduce the population of the bass. They are from 8-12" currently, seem very healthy, and very aggressive. I do not want to suffer from over crowding, stunting, and loss of fish.
Should we cull the bass by electro fishing? Can we sell the 8-10" bass to offset the cost of the electro fishing? What is the going rate for 8-10" bass? Is this worth the effort, or should we just start to fish heavy to reduce population?

Mike

Mike are you sure it's Hydrilla? I thought I had Hydrilla in my pond but it turned out to be Elodea. Either way keep an eye on it. I can tell you from personal experience that if you turn your back on Elodea and have an increase in nutrient run off that the Elodea will grow at an astonishing rate. My understanding is that Hydrilla is even worse. As the number of homes increase I would imagine that your runoff would increase also. It may not be a problem now but could become an issue sooner than you think.

Just a thought.

Turns out it is bushy pond weed more than hydrilla. We have American pond weed as well

Mike check with the people you bought them from. Often people will come shock in return for some of the healthy 12 in LMB if they have a sale for them. If the lake will only be down a few weeks then I would not take them out. If it will be a long time like 6 mths + that may be different. You may have stocked for 35 acres but that is based on a mature fish population. You should not be there yet at 1 year +- . My worry is water quality. But that is your field. Do you have aeration ?

Mike, I like grass carp to clean out pondweed. I have successfully eliminated it using 7 GC to the acre. The first year, you wonder if they are eating it. By the next Spring, there is a noticeable decrease. Then, you wonder what happened to all of the vegetation.

Ewest,
You make a good point. At this time I am unsure how long the lake will take to get repaired and then refilled. The latest report fro the engineering company hired to do the next round of study, is to drill monitoring holes around the lake, monitor for up to 4 months, then develop the repair plan. Sounds like a 6 month project to me, and then another 6 months to fill. The bass were stocked last May, and as of tonights "rod and reel survey", they are running 8-12". Two of us caught over 50 fish in 2 hours, so the density of the population is not suffering. All fish looked health and had good growth indication.

I too am more worried about water quality. With the lake below spillway, there is no way to purge any water. Pond weeds have brought is lots of ducks, and so water fertility will likely be high this summer. We are starting to see the FA already. We will likely wait till after the repairs before we worry too much about the weeds. tha lake id down 8 feet already, and the depth has to drop another 5 feet. I think all the weeds will die out with the water level drop.

I wish this lake was full and we could concentrate of getting on with our trophy bass plans.

Mike I added this from your other post.

This is one of the "average BG" we now have in our pond. They are running 8-9" in length and weigh 8-10oz. based on my fish scales. These are pellet fed daily, and fed all winter long.



With the above being the case I would not worry so much about removing 12in LMB until the need arises as they can't eat that size BG and won't try much to eat their yoy (yoy to small). I would watch water quality and worry about balance later. Aeration and buffering ability may be critical. You may need those LMB to help keep the forage from getting to dense and causing water problems. I don't know which uses more O2/carrying capacity one LMB or the ten pounds of forage it may eat. It may be a sum of the parts situation. See http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000004.

Update from one year later.
We still have a very viable BG and LMB population. The numbers of BG seem to be very good based on rod and reel survey and the number of fish seen visually. The pond is still quite clear, but that is best explained by the fact that we had another leak develop once we hit the 80% full mark, and the result was a need to drop level back to the 227' elevation and do some repairs (ESS-13 and flyash were used). This dropped the acreage coverage to an estimated 8 acres. Since we stocked for a 35 acre lake, this put a big stress on the fish population and I feared a total fish kill. We moved over 750 LMB by rod and reel to the larger lake prior to draw down, so that apparently helped. I saw no dead fish at all in the 4 week repair period prior to starting the well flow to refill the lake. All this took place from September 4th (start of draw down) to October 10th (start of well). Thank God for a mild September.
Fishing this week produced several LMB that go up to 16" and range from 12" to the 16" size.We also have evidense of a spawn sometime tis summer, with YOY LMB at 3-4". The spawn must have bee extremely late. The 16" fish weighed in at 2lb. 3 oz., so the relative weight on at least that fish looks okay. I still see a lot of BG in the 8" range, and we also have several size classes of BG ranging from 1.5", 3", 4.5", and 7-8". We added tilapia this past spring when we thought we were getting a full lake by summer. This may have helped keep down the pressure on the BG. I was afraid this additional bio loading would end up being a big mistake when we started the draw down. The warm winter so far, has allowed the tilapia to survive till at least mid December. I have not seen dead adult fish, but water temperatures are still in high 50's. The adult tilapia I saw up till mid December, are no longer visible so they may have been eaten by herons, osprey, and eagles, or they went deep (we have 70 degree water entering and the lake is now 18' deep again).
We are not feeding since mid December, having allowed the feeders to run out. I noticed tonight, that when I went to check water level, I had about 30-40 BG congregate where I stood. It amazes me how well trained they have become. I might need to start the feeder again.

Mike - thanks for the great report. I would try 1 feeder where the 70 degree water is coming into the lake. Feed once a day (mid-day) and see what happens. Please update if you do as we could use the info point. Sounds like you are on schedule even with the twists and turns with the leakage.