Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Dying Trout

Hello, I am new to this list, but I have read some of the posts. My question is this: I have a pond that covers 1 acre with a depth of 13ft at the deepest point with alot of shallow areas. I have bluegill, bass, and trout. I stocked the trout last fall and again this spring (Crystal Springs Farm). I have been keeping an eye on my temp and have been pumping well water into the bottom on a regular basis. About a month ago I noticed that my temp at the bottom was in the high 70's and was told that Aquashade would help. I put in 1 gal and it brought my temp down to 65. My trout (rainbow and brown) seemed to be doing well. I feed them regularly and they have been active and jumping (getting alot of air), but today I found 11 dead trout. I am at a loss as to what is killing off this many trout. I have occasionally found one dead from time to time, but nothing like this. I have also had to deal with the Herrons. I made a scarecrow and that has helped. One thing I have noticed lately is the trout are swimming in the shallow area close to shore (looking for small fish?) and I have noticed that some of them have white eyes. I netted two this morning and one of them had white eyes.

Any thoughts? I appreciate it!

welcome to PB waterloo......sounds like it might be oxygen depletion....are you aerating? typical well water (groundwater) is depleted in oxygen....are you letting your well water oxygenate before it enters the pond?

My pond gets alot of surface disturbance from the wind. Other than that, no. I have been running the water to the bottom of the pond thinking that adding to the surface (which I used to do) would mix with the warm surface water and defeat the purpose of adding cold water. I also have alot of weeds which cover 50% of my pond. These were there prior to adding Aquashade.

It's that time of year when oxygen starts getting depleted in the deeper water along with the water warming up. I don't know what your well flow is, but if your pond is 1 acre in size you probably don't have enough well flow to keep the water cool enough and oxygen levels up.

You aquatic vegatation may be exasberating (sp?)the situation during the night by using oxygen, and if it gets thick enough will help warm the water by creating shallower water.

The trout are coming up for higher oxygen levels but they are gettting stressed by the higher temps and the fact that the warmer temps can't hold as much oxygen. If the temps don't kill them the stress will indirectly by causing them to come down with disease and parasites that attack their weakend systems. White eyes, pop eye etc. are indicators of this.

When I had trout in a seasonal pond I had the same thing. I also have a friend in Ft. Wayne that has observed this later in the summer although he has a much smaller pond than you and he now pumps in more well water.

I hate to tell you this but it will probably only get worse. Sometime in August you will probably lose all your trout. You could get lucky and a few may survive. Be aware though just because they don't float doesn't mean some made it. Many trout will not float up and will decompose on the bottom.

Do you think aerating would help? Also, I have started dragging the pond with some metal box springs to clear out the weeds. The other solution is to catch them all and fire up the smoker!

Surface aeration may help but I doubt it. I would catch them if you can but most likely the stressed ones won't be interested in biting much.

I know this may sound like a dumb question: If the trout get stressed out, can they get back to normal? I know when I am stessed out, I tend to eat :-)

Yes, if what stressed them subsides. Also depends how intense the stressor is.

Waterloo, in my experience, adding groundwater to your pond by first letting it run over land, gravel, sluice box, or some sort of substrate before it hits yer pond is the most beneficial way to do it. this will oxygenate it to some degree but not radically change its temp. as the cold water enters the warmer water of your pond, it will form its own current, and since it is more dense than the warmer pond water, it will still find its way towards the deeper levels of your pond.

we have some Pleistocene remnant saline lakes out west here that have feeder streams and creeks entering them. fisheries biologists have tracked the freshwater currents for many hundreds of yards out into the lakes.....rainbows, cutthroats, and brown trout have been documented to enter the saline lakes via the freshwater creek currents, and to dart in and out of these currents to gorge on brine shrimp, and then turn back and head back up the creeks from whence they came...pretty fascinating stuff. i would think cold well water would exhibit a similar fluid dynamic entering warm pond water.

DIED I think it depends on how much flow he has. I've taken temps around my aerated inflow and the temperature differental seems to get homogenzied almost instantly. However it does keep the overall average pond temp low enough.

How many gpms are coming in Waterloo?

Cecil has a good handle on Waterloo's trout problems. Waterloo's pond has a too big of a shallow water volume to depth ratio and too little well water inflow to maintain trout year round in Indiana. Trout swimming in shallow water in his pond during late June & July are stressed, and not looking for food but cool oxygenated water.

Thanks for all of the great info. I am sad to report that the trout are finished. I was able to net several. The rest ended up belly up. They made for expensive fertilizer in my garden. As for the gpm's and the water temp the gpm's are about 55 gpm. There is an area about 1/6th of an acre that is 12-13 ft and the temp at the bottom remains 65-68 degrees. When I netted some of the trout I noticed some had popping eyes or they looked bloodshot or white. When I cleaned them some had a yellow/orange (almost dye-like) liquid up near their gills. It actually would stain the meat near the front fins. I wonder if they are still safe to eat? Finally, if it is an oxygen problem wouldn't my bass or bluegill be effected? Thanks!

sorry for your loss Waterloo.

i'm only a fish farm rookie here, but I believe bass and BG are MUCH less sensitive to low oxygen conditions than trout. in another thread on this forum, i was amazed to learn BG can live (thrive?) in water up to 97 degrees. while the bass and BG may be fine in your pond as is, aeration would help them as well.

Sorry it didn't work out Waterloo. My place used to be a commercial trout operation (trout haven). The pond is about a third of an acre, and about 10' deep. Well water from two 1.5hp sand point pumps ran most of the summer. The well water would be sprayed into the air over the pond to keep the temp down and aerated. The pond will fill up to a weir, where it would spill out, thus maintaining a constant depth. There was a constant exchange with fresh cool aerated water. The trout did great all summer. I think the well water was about 58 deg. Well, this is all in the past. Can you imagine running well pumps all summer and the electric bill.

Today, we have LMB, BG, CC, FH's, and White Crappie. We run an aerator, and feed pellets. Oh, we have some leaches, bull frogs, garter snakes, box turtles, cattails, reeds, a little bit of algea, arrow head, pond lillies, to name a few species. All is well.

Waterloo, based upon the trout operation previously run in my pond, I would say you would need a whole lot more cool water from wells to keep trout from being stressed. The water also needs to be aerated in some fashion. Trout are a cold water species and that can't be changed. Again, sorry about the loss.

Thanks guys. As you know, ponds become a passion and for those of you like me, learn by tial and error. Even though the trout did not make it I am enjoying the pond and have resigned myself to raising nice bass and BG. They are doing well. I dug the pond in '01 with a John Deere 650. Everyone said I was a fool for not hiring a pro. I was even a bigger fool when I discovered nothing but sand and gravel - no clay! For over 2 years I had a big hole with water in the bottom (where I hit the water table). I had 74 truckloads of clay brought in over the next year. Once I had enough clay I got another dozer and spread the clay. I didn't use a sheeps foot roller or anything like that, just the dozer. Once the clay was spread I brought in several truckloads of sand and some rock for my spillway (where my well water could splash over the rocks to keep my pond full and cool). Rather than wait for enough runoff I ran a gas pump and pulled from the creek that borders my property. I felt that this was better than letting the clay dry out and crack, which would make it next to impossible to hold water. I am happy to say that the pond has done very well. I makes a nice swimming pond and we have plenty of frogs, BG, Bass, and some paited turtles. The sand beach and bottom are especially nice for swimming. I put in a 2" sand point well to provide an adequate source of cold water. I used to run it over the rock, but was told by the guy I got my trout from that I would be better off filling from the bottom of the pond. It is ironic that I didnt start filling from the bottom until late spring. I put Aquashade in to help keep the temp down, which did help. Needless to say, I have learned much from this process, but overall, I am pleased with how the pond looks and have had many comments about how natural it looks. I have included some pictures. I know I enjoy seeing pictures of some of the projects from our fellow members, so I hope you don't mind if I include a few pictures. This one is looking North at the pond:
Here is one taken at sunset:
This one shows the cabin and the shallow end of the pond with the sandy beach
This is "Scarecrow Stanley". He helps keeps the herrons away.

I have posted some more up to the web at: Pond Pictures

Stanley ought to have a fishing pole.

Waterloo......very very nice...

As Brettski once told me when I first posted pictures:

"Awesome scenery...another postcard pond! It was another God granted, Mother Nature delivered perfect pondsite. You did very well and should be proud."

And thanks to Russ for the term "puttin on the dribble bib" i put mine on looking at your pics.....great place.

Does Scarecrow Stanley work?

Waterloo,

If it's any consolation this may be my last year raising trout. I make money on them and I do have a demand, but the pumping is a pain and as of late I'm having trouble with my overflow from the perch pond that receives water from the trout pond. Weeds, algae and possibly fish are blocking up the pipes. If I stick with perch, bass, and bluegill my profit margin will be higher because I won't have to pump a well 24/7 7 months of the year.

Bruce,

We made Stanley back in May in an effort to keep the herrons from eating my trout. Each morning and during the night I would see them in my pond and I would always see their tracks in the sandy shallow bottom. After putting Stanley out there the herrons stopped coming. For a while, we were good about moving him and changing positions. The one thing we failed to do is to change his clothes. Once the herrons realized that he wasn't moving they came back. So, we got some different clothes and mixed it up a little bit. I think Theo is right.... he needs a fishing pole! The trick is to change his clothes frequently and move him. But to answer your question, he does seem to work. Even my one dog looked at him funny for a few days.

Stanley, that funny. You'll have to put one of those sound actuators in him, like the stuffed toys in the store. When something come by, he sets the hook and begins reeling in ....

Awesome pond. I could see chilling out next to Stanley.

Just to add to an old thread on the challenges f trout. I have done everything wrong nd learned slowly what must be in lace for trout to succeed, Of course, Cecil and Theo have been real helpful along the way.

in 2003 I lost 200 17" rainbows in early July in middle Michigan, after leaving the aerator running 24/7 and thereby super-heating the water to 75 degrees. Water just doesn't hold much O2 above 70. Trout were swimming in circles a the surface with fins exposed. We even found a dozen had gone psycho and jumped out of the pond and their intact skeletons were found on the shore.

WE have a 1/3 acre 50 yr. pond that was dredged about 3 yrs. back to add depth (12 ft. in some places- now) still not that deep. We re-stocked last Spring and made it all the way through the summer in good health!

Here was the formula- we had to have a new well drilled (just a little 2" steel pipe well). Our old artesian well was producing 15gpm of 48 degree water year round, all for free! Taht wasn't enough water. The new aretesian well hardly gave 4 gpm so we added a 1/2 hp well pump and it added another 20+ gpm, dropping 3 ft. to the water from a pvc pipe.

The other "trick" - our best solution was to add a thermostat (ACF Greenhouse supply) 220v thermostat that turns on and off the aerator. In the winter it is set to go on (and stay on) when the temps dip below 35 degrees. Keeps it ice free all winter. Turns OFF at 38.

In early summer, it is set to go on (aerate) when the temp drops to 65 and then OFF at 68. This is critical, as the aerator only goes on at night, when the evening temps dip. then you not only get aeration, you get a cooling effect. Since this is an automated situation, on hot nights of 75,80 and more, the pond sits still, and does not warm up at all. In middle Michigan, we looked at weather history for every day from June through September for 4 years backward. Only 1/4 of the nights stayed hot, but hat is enough to warm things up to much.


Short scoop - never pump well water to the bottom without aerating first. #2- big volume of incoming cold water is essential for trout success through the summer and 3rd- aerate whenever possible, but never when the air temp is over 70 (unless it is spring and you want to raise temps).

michael, that was a great post!

Waterloo:
I have trout in Norther Michigan and gone through one failure (all died) four years ago, to a great success in 2006 and still going. The trout are up to 20" and thriving. My pond is also 1/3 acre and more shallow than yours.

you mentioned you had 55 gpm??? Is that true? IF so, 55 gpm = 3,300 gph and 79,200 gallons per day, more than enough to raise trout. Seems your calculation on this may have been a bit optimistic? I have a combined 30 gpm (both wells combined (one artesian and one pumped) and that is barely enough to do the trick during the summer

The secret weapon for trout if you don't have a small spring fed river flowing into your pond (one guy I know has a 500 gpm artesian well (read river) feeding his commercial trout operation, is a thermostat on your aerator.

ACF Greenhouse sells a RANCO brand 220 volt thermostat- I have on my aerator. Consider this temp scenario

85 - day temp / 60 night temp
92 day temp / 68 night temp
87 day temp / 72 night temp

With this kind of high / low daily temp, you don't want to aerate 24/7. It will simply cook your pond unless back to point #1- you have a HUGE cold well feeding the pond or a spring fed river flowing in etc.

If you have the thermostat cut the aerator OFF when it hits about 70, then you protect the pond from convection over-heating. In Norther Michign, we are blessed with 2/3 of summer nights are cool (60 or lower), so the aerator runs all night if it dips below my setting of 65 and cools th epond off. Some nights when it drops as low as 40 (even in July) it will cool a 70 degree pond by a full 2 degrees. Not sure how cool your nights are, but it's a thought.

you mentioned you had 55 gpm??? Is that true? IF so, 55 gpm = 3,300 gph and 79,200 gallons per day, more than enough to raise trout.

But Mike the kicker is his pond is one acre. Too much surface area to keep cool enough even with that kind of flow.

I agree 55 gpms is a good flow but if Waterloo wants to raise trout year around he will have to dig a smaller pond to flow it into. He could overflow it into his bigger pond with no probems.