Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations help with snake information

I hope you can help me with this. I understand that the 4 venomus snakes in N.America are 1.Rattlesnake 2.Copperhead 3.Water Moccasin and 4.Coral Snake........My question is this: Don't all snake have some some degree of venom? How else would they kill their prey?...I don't like to kill anything but water snakes are pretty bad around my pier and I had to eliminate a few the other day because I was afraid they would bite one of my dogs. I feel sure they couldn't kill one but I would think they would at least make them sick. I had one 2 years ago bitten by a large copperhead and nearly lost him (it also was very expensive to get him treated) Also, do non venomous snakes even have fangs?.......Help

All snakes are bad and all snakes are venomus, and there is only one type of snake in North America it is the Copperheadedwaterrattler.

I know snakes have there place but for folks like me with a deathly fear it is hard to believe

No, non-venomous snakes are just that, non-venomous. Sometimes their saliva is allergenic or bacteria laden however (ie a bite may swell and or become infected). They kill by biting, squeezing or swallowing whole. In my neck of the woods, most non-venomous snakes are also not real aggressive with the exception of the northern water snake. All the non-venomous snakes I have observed do not have fangs. I think this is the norm. Some do have significant teeth.

I think your concern is justified. Dogs and horses are bitten due to their curiosity. Dogs in particular just have to get a good whiff sometimes.

These snakes may help you out. If they bite your dogs and scare them, then maybe your dogs will leave poisonous snakes alone.

Maybe your dogs would know the difference......Mine don't. Question: If you let yours learn on their own, like you suggest I do, how many did you loose in the process?

All dogs ain't as smart as the next. My mutt has been blasted by skunks 4 times last year, and 3 so far this summer. He's great at killin coons, groundhogs, possoms, and just yesterday, a muskrat. Dumb dog, but a good one. If we had poisness snakes around here, it would be my quest to eliminate all on my property.

Like everything else in this world, it all depends. People are terrified of snakes and then get in and drive their auto which is infinitely more dangerous. Yes, some snakes are venomous (the four types mentioned by donmorgan) and should be treated with respect. Some species such as the non-venomous water snake can be down right agressive.

The things to really be afraid of at our lakes are the autos we use to get to the lake, drowning (especially with children), accidents of all kinds, lightning, and diseases such as West Nile virus and Lymes. All of these things really are serious and all too often, we ignore them and focus on things that seldom cause problems.

Aside from the big 4 mentioned above, we have a horribly venomnous snake here in large numbers, Republicratus democanis. Some say they should be divided into two genera, but they all look and act alike as far as I am concerned. I have zero tolerance for them in my pond, and I stay away from their natural habitats as much as possible.
Lou

Rat + fleas = plague
Rat + snake = Fat snake

I'm just getting over west Nile virus, fortunately for me it was not much more than flu like symptoms and a weird feeling stiff neck but.. if I were 25 years older and in poor health it probably would have been much worse. I prefer the opportunity to see my threats head-on, than to be blind sided by a insect.

The only good snake is a dead snake.

I am not at all a fan of snakes, but I do believe that the king snake is a beneficial predator for ridding your home of rats and other snakes (to name but a few of their prey). What is the old saying about a pointed head snake versus a flatheaded one??? Of course who is gonna take the time to check out the head shape before blasting away or shovel picking it's head off. :p

edit: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/venompix.htm

Summary:

Non venomous snakes have many tiny teeth. These small teeth will make superficial cuts similar to briar scratches. If you, a child or a pet is bitten by a nonvenomous snake, the bite will look like a horseshoe of tiny scratches. Clean the area well with soap and water and wipe it with hydrogen peroxide. If only one or two puncture wounds are present, or if you are allergic to snakes, or if you are not sure the snake is nonvenomous, go to a doctor. Unlike venomous snakes, most nonvenomous snakes cannot bite through clothing.
Many times people kill snakes such as the young black or gray rat snake and the young racer snake, thinking they are copperheads. This is really a shame, because rat snakes and others do no harm and help keep the rodent and insect population down. Besides, most snakes -- even venomous ones -- are not aggressive and would rather avoid a confrontation with people. A snake can only strike with authority within a distance of one- half its body length. So a reasonable distance will keep you safe. Give the snake time to go on its way.

If a confrontation is unavoidable, how can you tell the difference between a venomous copperhead and a harmless rat snake? The rattlesnakes, copperhead, and cottonmouth are pit vipers. They are characterized by a pit between and slightly below the eye and nostril, long movable fangs, a vertically elliptical "cat's eye" pupil, undivided scales on the underside of the tail, and a large triangular-shaped head that has a small, smooth, shiny cap over the nose. Nonvenomous snakes have round pupils, a large smooth cap over the top of the head past the eyes, divided scales on the underside of the tail, no pits and no long fangs.

Of the 37 species of snakes throughout North Carolina, only six are venomous:

Copperhead (found throughout NC)
Canebrake Rattlesnake (found throughout NC)
Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake (found in southeastern NC)
Pigmy Rattlesnake (found in southeastern NC)
Cottonmouth or Water Moccasin (found in wetland areas in the eastern half of NC)
Coral Snake (the rarest, found in the south and southeastern areas of NC).
The odds of getting a serious snakebite in the Southeast are low for several reasons. The first is that only 6 of the more than 40 species of southeastern snakes are venomous. The second is that the five species with the most potent venom and greatest potential danger are less likely to bite a person than the sixth one. That sixth snake is the copperhead, North Carolina's most numerous venomous snake.

Copperhead Snakes
Keep in mind the reason for the copperhead's popular name. A copperhead has a rusty patch on the top of its triangular-shaped head. Copperhead markings look like a string of rust-colored hourglasses. Incidentally, the hourglass shape is a warning sign elsewhere in nature, the black widow spider and the brown recluse spider come to mind. So think, 'Hourglass shape, move in haste.' Young copperheads are easily distinguished from nonvenomous snakes by the lemon-yellow tail, which young copperheads will retain for about a year.

If you or your pet are bitten by any snake that you suspect is venomous, get medial attention immediately. For the most part, if you let snakes alone, they'll leave you alone.

Deb


*** Let me point out here that I am NOT a PETA member, but am just adding my two cents tonight (while under heavy medication, ) ***

Deb, thank you for this very informative post! I also have said many times that I'm not a PETA supporter in defending what I think is a reasonable approach to different animals. What we all are trying to do on this forum is learn perspective. When to do something and when not to do something. Good job!

Don,

Water snakes kill their prey by swallowing. Some snakes have fangs in the rear of their mouth, and they are used for bursting puffed up toads, frogs, and fish so they can be swallowed.

You pretty much don't need to fear any snake swimming in the water. The main reason is that snakes in the water aren't usually trapped or stepped on. All snakes want to do is run away. I guess 90% of snake bites are from the snake being stepped on.

Another good reason not to worry is that Cotton Mouth Moccasins are extremely shy, and almost never swim in sight of people. I guess 99.9% of all swimming brown snakes are water snakes. They can not hurt anything bigger than a small fish.

Sometimes water snakes can become habituated to people and become pests. If there's more than 10-15 hanging around, you may want to thin them out. I actually like to see a few in public waters, because they usually help me find the bream beds.

To protect you and your dogs from cotton mouth moccasins, all you have to do is remove any boards, tin, pipes, compost piles, overturned boats, or anything they may hide under. They will not stay out in the open.

It's a good thing I'm not afraid of snakes, or I would never go fishing. There are just too common around here.

Heronblu, very true!! They are very slimy and mostly worthless.

Just a note to say I killed a 2 foot copperhead the other day at the pond. It swam across the pond and right up to me at the bank. I shot it in the head with a 22 about 3 feet from my foot.

I killed a 21/2 foot copperhead in the driveway about 3 weeks ago. Bad year here in Alabama for snakes.

Some cotton mouths will swim to you when you get in the water. had that problem years ago when we camped out on the Coosa River. We would get wet and soapup to wash and when we jumped in to get soap off the snake would come from a small island to check us out. We would watch and be out of the water before he got there.

Swim Forest, swim!