Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations killer gators

Interesting story on the news this morning. During the last week, 3 people in Florida have been killed. In each case, the gators came onto land to get their victim.

Several problems have led to the killings. More growth has developers building in gator habitat. The gator population has grown exponentially in the last 20 to 30 years since they were considered endangered. Also, the Fla. drought has more gators moving around looking for food.

All of Florida is gator habitat --- chomp , chomp. I read once where they killed a big gator that was harassing people and found several dog collars in his gut.

DD,

I saw one of the news stories. The article I read said a woman was running in an area surrounded by canals. They authorities theorize that she had taken a break. A passerby saw her resting on a bridge with her legs dangling over the water. They later found two arms inside of a gator that was trapped in the canal. Very scary - we must be mindful of the potential of a large gator, especially one that may be conditioned/lost its fear of humans or associates food with humans.

ewest I think gators will try just about anything, they a very curious of anything in "their" water and sometimes come to inspect it. It is very hard (for me) to predict what will set them off. My gator will sometimes come close, sometimes not. Last week he came rushing over when we poured water from my pier into the water...other times he stays far away.

I'm begining to feel less and less comfortable with having one around.

Gator

Gator, if I were you, I'd have to kill the gator. With little kids trying to enjoy the pond (I believe you've got some youngsters?), there is just too much to risk.

I believe that you can teach kids about the dangers present when out in the wild such as snakes, etc., but the gator just seems too much, and unpredictable at that. I don't even know what would be a safe range for observation.

A few years back, my wife and I and one friend were flats fishing with a guide off Islamorada FLA KEYS, so there were four of us on a small skiff. Tarpon was not really in season, so we decided to fish for sharks. We pulled up and anchored (by sticking in the push-pole and tying off to it) by a mangrove, and started chumming. We were also catching mangrove snappers, cutting them in half, and using them as bait.

At one point, two of us had sharks on the line. The sharks were maybe 250-350lbs., so there was basic mayhem on the skiff. At the same time, a gator emerged from the mangrove and started slowly coming straight at the boat. I saw him and asked the guide what we were going to do; I also asking him if the gator could get onto our boat. The guide told me the gator could easily get on the boat. Sad thing was that we didn't even have access to the push-pole as it was twenty feet away, stuck in the ocean bottom as our anchor. We basically cut the lines for the sharks, started the motor, and got back up to our anchor, and left the area. In hindsite, I've never feld comfortable with that whole situation, not because of the gator, but because we were catching big sharks on this little boat. If anyone had fallen off the boat, they would have been in about 6-10 feet of water with at least 30-40 sharks of various types. As the tide was going out, it was like being in a river. It would have been at least 2-3 minutes before we could get the engine started and get back to the man overboard.

All ethics, habitat, and conservation stuff aside, if something happened to my kid(s) or dog even, that I could have prevented, I'd be affected for life.

Sunil,

I appreciate your comments; I too have concerns having a lake with gators and kids. Gators are native to my part of Texas. If I kill one gator, another will take its place.

Is it more dangerous to have a gator and know about its habits, etc. or remove it and be surprised some day by a new (unknown) gator? I don’t know. Size plays a contributing factor to the danger level of a gator, IMO.

My lake is very remote and my kids do not go there without supervision. My kids are only allowed on the pier, which is not accessible by a gator.

To the point of your story, gators come to unusual happenings in their area. If something is splashing around or otherwise out of place, they will come check it out. The gator was more likely to go after the hooked shark than your skiff…many times the gator in my lake hang around for awhile and wait for something to happen, then seemingly get bored and move away. I think it is simply checking for something to eat.

Gator

Gator, I'm sure you're considering all the options!

I understand the comments about if you kill a gator, one will take it's place. It may have to be an on-going effort.

Recently, I saw a TV special about sharks, great whites to be specific. It outlined four or five specific incidents of shark attacks on humans. The premise of some of the experts was that the sharks were really just "taste-testing" the victims, and determined that they didn't like the taste and let the victims go. The other basis for their thoughts was that if these huge sharks had wanted to kill the victims, it would have been no problem.

While all the subject victims of this documentary had survived, most lost legs or arms.

While I agree that the sharks could have killed these people had they wanted, it does not make me more comfortable. Granted that it's good to be alive, I still don't want to be taste-tested by a great white either.

My point is that a lot of animal behavior experts would like to assign a predictable nature to wildlife, almost as a post-explanation like "sure that bear ripped your nuts off, but all he really wanted was to be understood!"

Let me ask this question to anyone on the forum: If you were in a jon-boat, or any of the types of pond boats that we have, would you be comfortable, or feel safe, if there was a 10-12 foot gator near by?

Gator :

Look for a PM.

I remember fishing one of the canals near where I lived in Louisiana, when a 16 ft gator came up behind me in my low to the water 14 ft. boat. I could have reached out and touched him without having to get up, but I picked up and moved instead. It can be very unsettling. I'm glad he wasn't very hungry.

Gator,
I know I don't have the country savvy that most of the PB posters exhibit, but kids will be kids and freak accidents know no geographic boundaries. I seemingly over-reacted on your recent thread about having these critters in your pond...maybe I didn't. There is a big part of me that always tries to envision the worst case scenario, then works back to reality. Promise me "no horrible news" in your reality. (I really feel for your situation...I'm dumb-founded by it).

Sunil,

Absolutely not...not for myself or anyone (or pets) that may frequent the pond area, regardless of being in a boat or on foot. I would have the same answer for 5 or 6 foot gators as well. Not in my ponds, no way, no how....and I also live in gator country.

I think ya'll are making to much of a deal on this and agree with Gator. I've waded chest deep around the shores of Lake Okeechobee, with a rod in hand, knowing the next step could be a gator hole. It's no big deal really, and just media hype. So what if two or three people get eaten by gators a year in Florida? I mean it's horrible and bad and all, but statistically, it won't happen to you. Last I knew there were 20,000,000 still living well, in Florida, and that is just the legal ones. Man eating gators does happen, but, it's mostly just a bunch of media hype, again.

Just make sure the gators have plenty to eat, so you won't be the most appetizing thing they've seen in a while.

Been there on several occasions. Gator was bigger than the boat. I retreated . Later that Gator was dispatched violently. After having been first run off it came back for a second attempt at a penned up lab 30 yards from the water. You (people) would get no second chances. You are not fast enough nor strong enough , even if armed, to survive intact.

I think that's the problem right now. The drought has shrunken living space and more gators are competing for limited food.

Robinson, I know you have kids. The discussion is not really about all the people who live in Florida. It's about having an alligator in your own pond that you frequent regularly or even live in. You know that!

ewest's last sentence is important. When I was in the Keys on vacation a few weeks back, I got to do a session in the water with trained dolphins. For one photo opportuniy, I was holding a dolphin while it was resting on my knee. For the first try, the dolphin was a female, maybe 400lbs., that had a two year old pup in the water also. When I first held her, she thought something was happening about thirty feet away with her pup. She bolted out of my arms and over to the youngster. I almost had the wind knocked out of me even though this dolphin was relatively so gentle. Actually, it was just more of a surprise, and I may have lost my own breath.

That's when I fully realized how disadvantaged a human is in the water when faced against any kind of water beast.

Imagine if you were in a float tube in a lake or stream. If you hook a 15lb. steelhead, it will easily pull you around the water.

http://www.floridaconservation.org/gator...k%20frequency\'

Statistically it's a non issue. In Florida there were a total of 9 attacks in 2005. There are 20,000,000 people. The general population had a 1 in 2.222 Million chance of being attacked, and not all attack victims die. Statically, you won't die from being eaten by a gator. First of all they are scared of adult humans. Probably "Alligator"'s kids would be more likely to be injured on a 4 wheeler on the farm, or a stray bullet.

Still, I would just shoot them to watch them sink, like a turtle. I like shooting critters.

Ah but statistics can be deceiving. How many of these Florida residents live in areas where there are gators ie. rural areas with gator habitat? Additionally how many of those people even go to areas where they're are gators? That eliminates a good number of those 20,000,000 people.

Statistics, as Sunil points out, can be deceiving and the determinant is the population selected.

Rob is right regarding the State of Florida per year. However, 3 fatalities in one week in a gator inhabited area changes the stats significantly.

They get even more clarified if you put one small child around a pond inhabited by one large, hungry gator

Just to clarify my position on gators:

- I feel that gators are dangerous. The larger they are, the more dangerous. Any gator over about 5' or 6' starts to become a problem.

- Feeding gators is a big no-no in my book. It creates a dependancy and reduces the natural fear of humans.

- There are no recorded deaths in Texas due to gators - I do not plan to be the first.

- I recommend a 10' to 12' gator be "relocated" immeditally.

- The most dangerous gator is the one you dont see...beware if you are in gator country.

Gator

Last time I was on Bass in the Stick Marsh, I'd say, only 1 of 20,000,000 was eliminated. The other 19,999,999 were right beside me. :p

It's just the low water conditions period. Cecil is right. Nothing that a hurricane won't fix.

I think from 88 til now they had something less than 10 deaths.

It is interesting though, David. 3 in a week.

I was watching the news this morning, and they said something like 19 deaths by gators in Florida over the past 58 years. Now three in one week. Due to drought and other factors the gators are moving inland for food. The report also said research had been done proving that once a gator gets a taste of human blood their targets are refocused.
Regardless of media hype, facts, or whatever I just wish EVERYONE safety and precautions around any type of water. Gators can also run at up to 60 miles per hour for a short distance. If you ever find yourself in that predicament you should run a zig zag line to tire the gator out. They can run straight, but it takes a lot of effort on their part to weave a path toward you.

Just be safe. Mother nature can be cruel and punishing, and every member here is needed whole and intact.

Deb

A few questions for those in gator country:

1) What is the geographic span for gators? Is it the entire Gulf Coast region?

2) If you are in gator country, do you ever swim in your pond?

I like the "natural" aspects of a pond, and my pond reflects that.

However, I don't have anything in my pond that can kill me very quickly, at least not without a sporting chance at survival.

We had two gators for a couple of years, in our pond/lake north of Montgomery Alabama, until they were removed 5 years ago. They were fine, cleaned out our turtles and geese, until they became acclimated to people and started harassing some of the neighbors. I still swam in our lake, but not in any of the area that they frequented. I remember my uncle having gators in his pond near Mobile, when I was a kid. The pond was very infrequently used so the gators never got used to people and would disappear when people were around. I also had some contact with alligators in Charleston SC, and was always told that if I saw gators and they didn't run then don't go near the water or any place they can hide.

Texas to Florida and Up to SC,NC maybe?

Yes. The wind blew my boat about 40-50 yards across the lake. I had to swim to retrieve it. There are gators in the lake, but none that are 5 ft or more, so no big worries. I normally swim in my gator-free pool.

Living in FL all my life, especially since they have become so protected and boomed in population you have to live with them. I have waterskied, snorkled, swam, etc. in some places that have gators, some big. Never once have I had a run in with them. Mocassins, on the other hand, are what I am most cautious of.

Florida really should make gator hunting more available. The quota system now is expensive to get only 1 or 2 permits, and then you have to hunt them in a setting where they are not a threat to human population (i.e. secluded areas where nobody would swim like Kissimmee, Okeechobee, Everglades, etc.). The threats are almost always where they have adapted to nearby residences. That is where they should be eliminated.

Between this and the hurricanes, do you think it will reduce people moving to Florida? I hope so.

One point that maybe has not yet been made on the question of allowing gators in our ponds:

It is one thing to assume risks for ourselves as individuals, but as PM's are we also so eager to place others that use our ponds, at additional risk? Are we willing to accept the occasional loss of a pet, the possible injury(or worse) to an unsuspecting child. Do we always know of every person who may visit our ponds?

I've taken a lot of personal risks over my lifetime in pursuit of fishing adventures and continue to willingly and eagerly take them. It is a far different question, however, as relates to us as PM's being responsible for the completely unnecessary increase in risks to those who may use our ponds. We have, IMO, a responsibility to make them as safe as we reasonably can do so.

I can see absolutely no justification whatsoever for allowing gators to take habitat in a pond which I am responsible for and which may have children and/or pets that frequent it.

I talked to my Texas Parks and Wildlife Game Biologist today. Texas created a regulation this year for land owners with problematic gators. The new regulation will go into effect in September. As long as you are removing a problem gator from your own land – you will be able to obtain a permit (fee $25) to harvest the gator legally.


Gator