Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations How did the Northern ponds make it thru winter?

BZ, This is my first time posting here on pond boss. I have to be honest, I have been "lurking" now for about a year. I have learned so much from all of you guys both southern and northern and haven't felt like I could contribute much. I too am in the frozen tundra of Minnesota with a 4 year, 1 acre pond. It seems like every spring is worse than the last as I have so much more to lose. I had one dead LMB and 2 BG. Every winter the fish seam to bite pretty good until mid January and then completely shut off by Febuary. Have you ever experienced this in your pond? Does anybody have any reasons for this happening? I have BG,LMB,YP and CC. Thanks to all for the information and I hope I can add something to this already great forum.

JW :

You have added to the forum and welcome to posting. Some of the best threads are started when someone new to posting asks what should be a simple straight forward question and in answering we all find out just how many answers there really are and we have to rethink our basic understanding of all things pond related.

I will not try to answer your question as I have very little experience with fish under ice other than in the freezer.

I've heard from ice fishers more experienced than I that the distribution and quantity of oxygen under the ice changes throughout the winter, and that places where the fish congregated during early ice may be low or even devoid of oxygen later in the season. I'll bet Bill Cody would know more about this, but it would stand to reason as rooted plant colonies stress from long exposure to cold and low light.

Let me give a little more background about my pond. I'm wondering if the threads about super cooling during the winter months might fit here or at least be a clue to the fish inactivety mystery. The average depth of my pond is 3.5'!! I do have 2 holes that are 5' and 6'deep. These "holes" are approximately 25% of the total surface area of the pond. I have used a windmill areator since the pond was constructed. During the entire winter there is an area of approximately 20 square feet that is devoid of ice. (NW wind in Minnesota never stops blowing during the winter). I do have an underwater camera that my kids and I use during the ice fishing season. We have monitored fish in both holes though out the early winter and then they seem to disappear. Anybody have any ideas? A side note about the fish growth. I have been monitoring my fish growth both by trapping and fishing. The growth of all species seems to be good but could my fish be stressed into not eating during the winter months?

JW :

LMB , BG and CC do not eat much in winter as there metabolism slows way down as water temps drop below 10 C (50 F). The YP will be more active as they are not warmwater fish. While this is a stress factor it is natural. If the places they stay get super cooled due to mixing from aeration that is a different matter. Are you aerating in deep water? If so you should consider moving it to shallow water in winter. Do a temp analysis next fall and winter and see what your water temps are at all depths.

ewest:
Thank you for the info. I am aerating in the 6' hole. Should I move into 3' of water during the winter? How about during the summer months? And a great idea on monitoring temps. I think I will do it through out the summer, fall and into winter. Us engineers can never have to much data.

JW here is an answer by Theo who has a similar situation but first an excllent link on the subject.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001274#000000

Theo Gallus
Moderator
Member # 1187

Member Rated:
posted April 09, 2006 08:00 PM
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Eric:

I moved my Koenders' output from 7' to (2' to 3') depth this last Winter for the first time (do a search for "supercooling"). It still had plenty of lift to keep the ice off, although the hole was perhaps 2/3 the size of what it would have been in deeper water.

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Non carborundum illegitimatus!
(totus res in temperantia)

More info since I made the above post - my Redears (the source of my concern wrt supercooling) have come through the Winter in excellent condition. Not that they had any apparent problems before when the aerator was in deep water, but moving it to the shallows "didn't hurt."

Next winter I'm moving my aerator stone into 3' of water. I'm also tring to figure out how to remove snow off my woodland surrounded pond. I'm no stranger to hard work, as most wildlife managers aren't, but shoveling a 1 acre pond 10 or 12 times a winter seems like a heart attack waiting to happen.

I'm north by some standards, and south by others. North Central Kansas ponds are lower than they have been for several years. We have gotten adequate moisture, but very little in large enough quanities to provide runoff. My fishing pond is in the area of 6' - 7' below the spillway level, but is still has about 8'-9' of water depth. No ice of significance. I had some cedar trees ready to slide out on the ice - never got thick enough to do that. More soaker rain(s) yet in April or early May will get my two springs running again. one has a wet streak coming out now but no noticable water flow on the surface. When full it is about 2 to 2 1/2 surface acres.

JW - nice to here from another Minnesotan. What area of the state are you in? I'm north of the Twin Cities about 50 miles. I'm new to the pond thing too (4 years) so don't usually have much to contribute. I understand that supercooling can be an issue so from the start I have only run my aerator for 2 four hour shifts each day. I do one shift starting at midnight and the other starting at noon. I have measured water temps during the winter and they drop fast if you keep the air going. My pond is only 1/2 acre mostly 6 foot deep with an 8 foot hole. I leave the air stones at the bottom of the 8 foot hole. Its easier to just shorten the aerator time than move the stones. I have never lost very many fish, most was 4 this past winter. I keep the snow off by plowing the pond during the winter with a small tractor. My pond is long and narrow so I plow both ends never getting very close to the open water. My aeration schedule keeps about a 10 foot opening most of the winter. If it stays below zero for a while the opening shrinks to nothing more than a small hole big enough to let the air out. When its really cold I go out occasionally with the rifle and have to poke a hole above the aerator. I too have found times where I just can't find the fish during the winter. I've even tried drilling many holes and looking with a camera but rarely see any. Most often they are as far from the aerator as they can get. That ought to tell us something. Right now my BG are beginning to take pellets really hard. They'll grow like crazy over the next month. Went out today and caught a number fish in the 9 to 10 inch range, they will weigh almost a pound.

BZ:
My pond is located about 10 miles north of Monticello. My family and I live in Maple Grove and own 60 acres just outside of Becker. I have to tell you, your story about the .22 shot into the middle of your frozen pond had me laughing for days. I have told that story to everyone I know that is into wildlife management. My neighbor also has a 1/2 acre pond. Over the past 4 years we have been trying everything. I am an R&D engineer in the medical field. And my favorite words are "impossible or can't be done". Each time somebody tells us it won't work we set out to prove them wrong. For example my neighbors pond has had 2 consecutive walleye spawns. Not that were going to grow lots of big walleyes but once again our DNR and fishery "experts" were wrong. This web site has had a profound impact on at least 3 ponds here in Minnesota. Some of my friends don't use the computer very often so they rely on me. At least once a week these guys are asking me, "what did PB say about...". I would love to talk to you about your pond or better yet tour each others pond. Exchanging stories of what has worked and better yet what hasn't worked. Are you feeding Aquamax or Purina? I was thinking of adding some more CC this spring. What has been your experience with them?

P.S. My wife is driven crazy when all week I'm talking fish ponds, duck ponds, or food plots with 1 or 2 guys. Now I have the ability to talk to 1,000's. Oh well, sex is over rated.

LW, we're not too far away from each other, I'm over toward Princeton from where you are. I'm probably 30 miles from Maple Grove. I think this pond stuff is catching on here in Minnesota. When I first started it was hard to find fish pellets in stock now you can buy them in every grain co-op. I feed aquamax 500 which is made by Purina. Perhaps what you meant is do I feed aquamax or Purina Game Fish Chow. Glad you liked the ice story. I swear it's true but I have no witnesses. By the way I'm also an engineer and I also like it when people say it can't be done. I was told you can't raise fish in a 1/2 acre pond in Minnesota, too cold. I just caught several 10 inch bluegill today. When my bluegill get over 9 inches long they are 1.5 inches thick across the pectoral fins. I'd post a picture if I new how. It would be fun to take a look at each others ponds and compare notes. Perhaps we can talk via PMs to get each others e-mail address.

BZ:
My email address is pwelch420@aol.com. Went fishing yesterday and caught two little BG. My fish are not in the shallows yet. I'm getting a thermometer to see what the temp of my water is. My neighbor's pond is about 1/2 acre and the fish are in the shallows. I have pond envy!

Started seeing some action in the BG pond today. Noticed two bass and half dozen BG. Tossed in some pellets and the BG got curious. Surface temps are approaching mid to upper 50's.

Side note to BZ and JW: Engineers posting pictures on Pond Boss..........can't be done

Russ:
No kidding about the posting of pictures. I'll bet my 8 year old could do it in a matter of minutes. I on the other hand...disaster.
I have another question for those in the north. My 1 acre pond is 4 years old and my neighbors 1/2 acre pond is 3 years old. We have the same types of fish (BG,LMB,YP). The growth rate of all his fish are faster than mine. What do you think would cause this? Our ponds are relatively close to each other, 150 yards apart. Our water clearity and average depth is the same. We both use windmills to aerate. His pond does warm up faster in the spring and he feeds approximately 125lbs of aquamax 400 through out a year. Does that amount of food really make that much difference? Could something else be going on? Anybody have any ideas?

JW. I have a similar situation as yours in terms of pond size and types of fish. My fish were born in the spring of 2003 and 1000 BG stocked in the fall of 2003. So they are 3 years old and I fed about 150# of equamax last year. The majority of my fish are well over 8 inches long with most over 9 inches and some at 10 inches. At this size they are over 3/4 pound. I think the growth in your pond is going to be highly dependent on the availability of natural foods as well as pellets. Let's face it, we call pellet feed supplemental feeding because that's just what it is in a pond. Unlike growing a fish in a tank there is no way even in a 1/2 acre pond that you can make sure that the majority of fish are being fed. The availability of natural food is going to depend a lot on the fertility of the pond but I also believe for larger fish which eat larger forage it is also important to have a lot of cover in your pond to grow forage. My pond is very odd shaped and thus has a lot of shoreline for its size. I also make a point never to trim vegetation growth from the edge of the pond. Either water plants, shore grasses, or woody plants such as willow and dogwood. These all grow out into the water to some degree and provide habitat for forage. I've noticed that my fish eat much more pellet food from ice out thru June. I am currently feeding about 2# per day. Then starting in July they eat much less but they continue to grow fat and healthy. I think they are getting much more natural food later in the summer as forage begins to mature. One clue that they are getting a lot of natural food is the simple feed conversion forumula. I have always read that it takes only 2 pounds of feed to produce a 1 pound fish. If this is true I currently have about 750# of fish in my pond for which I have only contributed about 300# of feed. Somehow they've managed to find another 1200# of forage that I didn't provide. JW, I'll send you an email and we can compare notes off forum. Oh, and Russ, you are absolutely correct about engineers so I'm not ever going to try.