Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Florida LMB and cold weather

I am considering a stocking program with the goal of creating a trophy bass lake. The stocking recommendations include use of Florida and natives as well as F1 in various ratios. Tonight I was told by one of the association, that Florida's would die off if we experience long cold spells ( periods of several days in the teens at night).
Since I see several on here in Northern climates that include Florida LMB, is the statement above true? What is the lowest temperature or climate where I would be concerned about the longterm stability of Florida bass.
Mike

M Spinhirne , you might want to remind your association members that the Lone Star Lunker program at TP&WL center at Athens, and all existing Texas State records, are the result of 1st generation stocking at the world famous Lake Fork Texas - much farther north than your geographic location..

I would caution however, to be certain that you stock certified genetics - there's lots of false claims out there about "pure" Florida LMB.

Hope this helps,
George Glazener

Long cold spells in Montgomery, Texas? We would need a new ice age before you should see long cold spells that far south!

You should not have a problem with Fla. LMB at your location and lakes. There are a number of lakes and studies that show good growth and survivability across the south -- south of I-20. There is one study from Okla where they lived many years and at one point under the ice for 2 weeks with out a die off. Keep in mind that your size lakes are not likely to freeze over and the fish can go deeper where the water temps are ok. You should look for winter water temps for your area. I would make a wild guess that at 4-5 ft deep they don't get below the 45-50 degree range at roughly 40 miles north of Houston. If you need more info to prove this point to the board let us know. BTW at cold water temps. with Fla. LMB the problem you see first ,the farther north you go ,is reduced growth rates. This was exhibited in the Okla. study but not in any info I have seen with lakes south of I-20. Almost forgot , the 16 yr TPWD study on Fla. LMB at its facility (Ingram Tx. same north lat.) did not indicate any reduced growth or die off from cold temps.

I need to chime in, here. There have been die offs due to cold in Texas. Here's what happened. The week after Christmas, 1983, into the first week of 1984, large Florida bass died due to cold temperatures. Fish were reported dead all the way to the Rio Grande Valley. Ironically, they didn't die because of the cold. They died because how quickly the temperature fell. Echo Lake, in east Texas, was the first reported victim. It was renowned at the time because that lake yielded the first two state record breaking bass in Texas in years, both fish larger than 14 pounds. The biggest bass died. Small shallow lakes and fish hatcheries lost their largest Florida strain bass all over Texas. Water temperatures were in the upper fifties when a raging 'blue norther' railed across the state. Water temperatures dropped as much as 20-25 degrees in two and three days. Giant bass, the older ones, were stressed, and a fungus wrapped itself all over the sluggish creatures. Water temps stayed in the 30's for more than a week, and ice formed. Biologists came to the conclusion that the cold temperatures were not necessarily to blame, but the rapidity which the temps dropped.
Bigger public lakes weren't affected as badly because larger bodies don't change temperature as quickly as a smaller one.

Bob :

In the event you described were all the dead fish Fla. LMB or did it effect CNBG , BG Northern LMB etc.? We have had reports on the forum from different parts of the country where similar events have caused morts. in a number of types of fish (SMB, LMB, BG) with no obvious reason (pathogen , wound, bacteria , etc. )? Did the event effect all ponds or just ones with that fungus ? Thanks for pointing that out.

The information on this site is amazing! I really appreciate the willingness to provide answers to all the questions us neophytes have.

I am learning alot.
Thanks,
Mike

Ewest, what I remember about that particular event was dead bass. It only killed pure strain Florida bass, and only the largest ones. One fish I personally handled was missing part of its tail, was beginning to swell, and still weighed more than 16 pounds. It was at a hatchery south of Houston. Several of the hatchery ponds on that 600 acre fish farm had bass and bluegill make it through that harsh winter event, but the big Florida bass broodstock didn't, nor did the largest in several large, shallow, rice reservoir type fishing lakes. On other occasions I have seen dead coppernose bluegill two times over my career. Once was during a similar cold snap the week after Christmas of 1989 in shallow hatchery ponds, and one other time in Arkansas and Oklahoma, at different hatcheries, in the 1990's when they had a similar winter event. On several occasions, I have lost coppernose bluegill in my vats, when the top froze, and the bottom temp dropped into the low 30's. They get sluggish, sink to the bottom, lay there, quit breathing, and die. It seems that rapid water temperature change did it. Here's something interesting. There have been some coppernose bluegill stocked in a lake in the north, and they survived last winter with ice cover more than three months in fairly shallow water. They grew last spring, summer, into the fall, and I don't know yet how they are faring through this winter. But, the water there drops slowly, and stops dropping at 38. That's not what happened in Texas. Temps dropped fast, and fell below 38, even as cold as 35 in shallow ponds. Keep in mind, water rarely gets that cold throughout a water column. That's what I (and a number of others) think did it.

Thanks Bob. That sounds like what others have reported happened to them with rapid temp. changes back and forth which killed several different types of warm water fish. My guess is the more warm water the fish type ( Fla. LMB and CNBG for example) the more susceptible it is to this type of event. Several studies on this, as it relates to Fla. LMB ,reported that in lakes in Wisc. (no survivors) and Ill. (small % survivors) there was low cold tolerance and low growth rates on those that did survive. It will be interesting to see the results from the above CNBG and the Okla. LMB that moved to N.Y.

The TPWD 16 yr. study at nearby Ingram started in 1985 (a year or so after the event you pointed out) and they discussed and accounted for all morts. during the study and none were from cold/changing temps. Thanks for the info -- good stuff.