Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Dunns Fish Farm

I had my new pond stocked by Dunns. It is about one acre in size. They sold me 400 channel cat, 500 hybrid bluegill, 100 black crappie, 12 lbs of fh. They said black crappie did not reproduce much and that hybrid blue gill were better in everyway. The fh would reproduce and thrive in my new pond.Since finding this site and talking to others I am not pleased with them. But it is to late now, they have thier money and I have my problems.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard this story. So sorry.

Like George, I consider my word and handshake as important as a written and signed contract. Others don't and I am now forced to "reduce to writing". It is just good business and I have learned the hard way.

Bobs post speaks volumes and his credibility is not in question with me. I doubt that Dunns would really respond here. Being in the business, I expect they are well aware of this Forum and shy away from it. I can only conclude that doing so is not in their best interest.

I have to continually remind myself when looking to make a purchase that "Just because they say it, don't make it so". Caveat Emptor.

I've bought off fish trucks and been happy. Other times, I've shown up and found that they were only hauling and selling, crappie, HBG and one pound LMB. No thanks. Not everyone was walking away. I have also found trucks showing up in Texas during the summer. Tough to acclimate a fish that comes out of cold water without a lot of preparation. I certainly don't have those kinds of facilities.

It may be hard to tell just where fish were raised and their background. I recently talked to a guy from Arkansas. He now lives in Fort Worth and went home to visit. He was surprised to find that some of his relatives were raising fish for dealers. It has become a cottage industry and growing fast. His statement was something like "up and down the road, people are raising fish". I didn't question him about his relatives knowledge, handling, diseases, etc. of fish. My impression is that they are aquatic incubators and we know the fish may or may not have problems.

Years ago, while hunting in Colorado, I talked to a farmer that was raising hops for Coors Beer. He had to meet very exacting standards or Coors refused the crop. They paid a premium for a quality product, regularly visited during the growing season, and had a lot of growers. As this thread points out, the fish business is premature and has neither those standards nor market leadership. Thus, the old adage of getting what you pay for doesn't yet hold here.

It's easy to swallow anything when you are hungry. I have a 10 acre lake that is very low due to the drought. I built a dock, cut some structure with a loader, am thinking about placing some trees, palletts, etc on the exposed bottom, etc. I bought a feeder from Dunn's at the Arlington show and picked up their brochure/catalog. They were open and seemed to be knowledgable, the brochure looks good, and I was prepared to order some stockers for forage under their recommendations.
Luckily, I also picked up a sample copy of Pond Boss at the show. The booth was unoccupied so I didn't get to visit with anyone there. After inhaling the issue, going online, posting a question, and getting advice, I am now prepared to do more homework before jumping off and just buying fish by the pound. The point is (finally)...Thanks for this forum and the depth of concern shown by the members for truth, justice, and the American way of life in the way that the controversy over Dunn's advertizing has been treated. I will continue to read the various sections and am sending my subscription in today. BTW, I was a subscriber for a while when Mark McDonald started up but soon knew everything and dropped it!
Thanks,
JRB

For those of us who are not in the fishery/biology/aquaculture industry, it would be tough to not believe what you are told from any fish sellers no matter if they were giving good advice or not.

All you would have is your general sense of logic to compare any given recommendation(s), setting aside publications and books. Frankly, I don't put anyones logic or intelligence above my own, save to say that I do know when I have no idea about a subject, and know when to listen to someone who does.

I can clearly divide my pond life/dreams/experiences as Pre-Pond Boss and Post-Pond Boss.

After having found the forum and learned so much, I think a lot of us don't like to see someone saying "yeah, put 3,000 fish in your 1/4 acre pond" to a new pond person.

Maybe we get so upset because we know we could have easily been the "Deer in the Headlights" before we found Pond Boss.

Very well stated Sunil !! The pro's have stated their frustration at having to go behind and clean up such a situation because of the harm done to both the owner and the profession.

That's what I mean. I probably wouldn't have sold any fish I thought might die due to the heat.
To each his own...if it works for you, go get 'em. There's room for everyone.

I like Bob in his current job: The Pond Boss of all Pond Bosses! We would all miss the magazine and this forum if he went into politics. I would vote for him anyway if he did. Bob Lusk for president!

Not a very nice post Calais.
I'm sure everyone here is glad you are satisfied with your experience with Dunns.
However there is evidence of several others who were not.
There is evidence from Dunns website which is contrairy to what the originators & members of this site know to be correct.
There is evidence of refusal to explain discrepencries.
I am hopeful you will refrain from further snide comments.

BTW, where are you located?

Calais...They do have to make a living too, but a good businessman knows a quick sale isn't always the best thing. Repeat business is where the money is at. Transporting fish is risky.... even more so when hot. If all your fish had died, I'm sure you wouldn't speak so highly of them. You got lucky. Think about what Bob is saying and I'm sure you will find him to be correct.

We all have to make a living regardless of the weather. But some things cannot be done responsibly in some weather.

Due to local climate and soil type/moisture, I can't really start making hay before June 10 or so. I have to be done baling hay by September 15, or what I cut will never dry. I nursed a field for 9 or 10 days in late September one year learning this, raking it every day. The weather was gorgeous, bright and sunny. The hay was always half dry and half wet.

(Advances in technology and knowledge will let the envelope be expanded sometimes. I gotta get a tedder and see what it will do to decrease my drying times. Similarly, it's easier to haul live fish in a properly rigged truck than in a bucket.)

I COULD bale hay in the rain, or too early or late in the year. I know people who cut AND bale in the rain. I know a guy who round baled in December one year. But the hay would not be fit to feed my livestock.

Of course, the guys next door who cut and bale in the rain SELL all their hay. I think always to different customers. Either that or very non-discriminating ones. Caveat Emptor.

EWEST,
Back somewhere in this thread of Dunn’s bashing and snake oil peddlers selling HBG, you asked about the Kid’s pond. I’m most happy to report the Kid’s pond is going great. We have purchased some outdoor furniture, planted the BOBAD and Theo Catalpa seeds, and have done everything we can think of to make it a great place for young ‘ems to learn the art of perch jerking. The HBG are growing at an amazing rate, especially for winter cold water conditions.

I’m completely confident now that the kid’s pond(s) will be a total success…success measured by smiles per hour. Inspired in part by Norm, I’m thinking of expanding the concept to another small pond and inviting in neighboring families with kids who also would like to perch jerk and have some fun. I grew up in total poverty in the Ozarks and one of the most fun things we could afford to do was go to my grandfather’s pond for some perch jerking. I have since had the great fortune to experience the exotic fishing that this world has to offer including 200 pound Tarpon, one of the largest speckled trout ever taken from the Texas coast, a magnificent 38 inch Alaskan steelhead, and numerous adventures and lifelong friendships. Within the next month, I will return from the Bahamas to write an article for a national magazine on the bonefishing on Crooked Island.

I hope I never forget my roots as a perch jerker. I’m proud to have started as one and will try my best to show the joys of catching them to my grandkid’s and the kid’s in neighboring areas around the ranch.

It turns out that now I know that the little fish we were catching at my grandfather’s pond were what this Forum calls greenies…a trash fish now peddled by snake oil fish trucks.

Not all fish trucks are snake oil peddlers and one man’s trash may well be another’s treasure.

My kid's pond is stocked with HBG from a fish truck. I’m not sure what that makes me in this Forum’s eyes, but it’s the eyes of the Kids I care about. If you are ever in my neighborhood, come see us and fish my new high performance ponds…but first you will have to prove that you can perch jerk. Thanks.


p.s. Calais, take it from me, if I were you I would not answer Ric’s question on where you are located.

ML, my overall take on ALL the fish suppliers of questioned integrity is that newbies and unawares may get taken for an expensive ride, while knowledgeable buyers can hold their own and can get good fish and good deals from them by utilizing good knowledge and judgement. You fall WAY inside the latter group.

ML,
You just can't quite seem to comprehend. Though consistant none of your accusations & snide comments are valid regarding the subject of this thread.

ps: I think I know where Calais is located.

ML :

Thanks for the update. I started as a perch jerker when I was to small to hold up a small cane pole. I still use a small cane pole and crickets mostly when I jerk perch. I hope I have learned a little about ponds and fish since that time. In the process of learning about the perch (BG ,RES, GSF and the many crosses) I encountered researchers stating that one of the reasons for the data being all over the lot is the suspected shortage of pure GSF. For example one Texas study showed that HBG (BG x GSF) were only 66% male where several other studies show the % at 97% male (a big difference for stocking purposes). The difference may be that the GSF stock were not pure thus skewed results. I thought you put GG from the hatchery in the kids pond.

One thing is sure -- the things that make a kid smile are never a skewed result. Time to get your worm bucket or plot or cricket cage (I like crickets) going , spring is almost here!!

Since I am the one that foolishly introduced the “snake oil” term to this thread, I must take responsibility – and to those I seemingly have offended, I offer my apologies.

I must say that I have high regards for Mr. Lusk and other fisheries operators that strive to police their own ranks, and to them I give my thanks.

We were fortunate in our pond stocking venture to benefit from Bob Waldrop’s stocking recommendations, who is owner/operator of Tyler Fish Farm, and original pond stocker for President Bush’s ponds.
You can go to the bank on his recommendations.

We followed his stocking rates until we/me impatiently tried to jump-start the program by purchasing fish from an out-of-state fish truck.
We were however, sufficiently informed not to naively buy into their high stocking rates of HBG.

Maybe I am the only one on this forum old enough to have actually attended a ”medicine show”, where I believe the term “snake oil” originated.

This term has served me well in being somewhat successful in the corporate world as well as owning and operating my own business for a number of years.

As members of this forum, we are fortunate to be well informed on many subjects, and I feel a responsibility to newcomers to pass on information from folks that I trust.

Just my thoughts,
George Glazener

ewest, SHHHHHH don't let Cecil hear you that Spring is almost here, he's anxiously awaiting Winter.

Hear, here.
George, the private fisheries business is a cottage industry. Those of us in it have mostly carved a niche, one in which we work hard to develop and maintain. The only way to police ourselves is to give solid, honest advice that provides results over the long haul, while holding the others as accountable as we can.
There are lots of honest, hardworking, thoughtful people in this business. Bob Waldrop is one. I, too, have high regard for Bob. There are a number of outstanding people in Texas.
They aren't the ones being called into question on this forum.
I will defend the honest ones as quickly as I question the repute of others.
As I said about Dunn's...I don't think them to be dishonest, at all. I just disagree with their fisheries recommendations and methods of stocking ponds. That's the consequences of 'just selling fish.'
As for the other human called to question...he's a crook. No other way to put it. I noticed he ran an ad in my hometown weekly this week. Now, I wonder, why would he do that? We are in an extended drought, ponds are drying up like flies. Free fish? This latest slurp of water was sucked up by the dirt faster than Bounty inhales a spill.
Here's the bottom line for me. Just in Texas alone, there are close to 1,000,000 private ponds and lakes. A MILLION. How many do I need to take care of to make a good living? One would need to look at 135 a day, 365 days a year, for 20 years to see them all. There's room enough for more of us who do this. My job, therefore, is to get out as much good information to as many people as possible, so they can make the best decisions. That's one huge reason Pond Boss was born, and the biggest reason the forum was conceived. Personally, there are several competitors of mine coming onto our site regularly. Several competitors advertise in the magazine. I WELCOME THEM, as long as the advice they give makes common sense, and they are honest. Those who aren't welcome are those who won't be held accountable, are dishonest, or just simply give bad advice regularly. My gosh, how many times have you seen a thread here which starts with some unsound suggestions quickly followed by someone's reprimand?
If someone comes to this forum trying to sell something or give bad advice, this educated group turns into a mob. This group is a pretty good police force, in their own way. While I will continue serving my niche to make a living, Pond Boss will continue doing what it does, providing solid information from a variety of reputable sources.

Good post, Bob.

Yep, the guy is a crook. He almost got me and I dodged just in time. He called me every name in the book and threatened to whip my butt, all from the safety of his cell phone. In addition to 10 times as many fish as the body of water would hold, he was going to fertilize; in winter.

Durn right, the police here are tough but usually polite. It reminds me that I ought to start every post with "My experience is" or "I heard" or "Just my opinion".

Lots of room for lousy information out there. Think about it. One million private ponds, just in Texas. Less than 2,500 registered users here from around the U.S., plus one Aussie and a couple of guys in the Far East, and yet there is really no place like this. State web sites are extremely helpful but, with the exception of Mississippi, I don't know of another actual pond Forum.

Really good stuff here. A short time ago, tilapia and HSB weren't considered acceptable in private ponds. Tilapia were considered strictly for the table and HSB were being put only in lakes. George, ML, and others tried something new and now they are gaining a lot of acceptability. Nice going, guys. There is now an answer to bass heavy ponds. I recently got a marketing type letter from Ken Hale of Boatcycle in Henderson, Texas. He has an article about the City of Denton, Texas reducing their algaecide remediation by, I think, $150,000 per year using tilapia. Trent Lewis stocked tilapia in a lot of local municipal park ponds last year for algae cleanup. Those things usually have a lot of ducks with the normal nasty water quality results. I haven't talked to Trent to find out how that went. Expect a shortage of tilapia this year in Texas. Demand is growing and the market will take time to adjust.

Dave,

We stocked several thousand pounds of tilapia last year with huge success. Although tilapia are not the "magic bullet" to erradicating filamentous algae, duckweed, watermeal and chara, they significantly reduced the amount of herbicides used in comparison to the years that tilapia were not stocked.

Our company's pond management philosophy is rooted in the principles of integrated pest management...using a combination of tools to achieve the desired outcome. This applies to fisheries management, vegetation management, pond renovation, etc.

Just like people, every pond is different (even two sitting 30 feet from each other). Because each pond is unique, it requires a unique combination of several tools to achieve the desired result(s).

Getting back on the topic of tilapia that Dave mentioned...more and more folks are discovering the value of this herbaceous fish and they are adding them to their pond management "toolbox".

We sell and distribute Ken Hale's crop of tilapia each year to the general geographic regions of north and west Texas and southern Oklahoma. At the end of December 2005, some of our clients had already ordered their "allotment" of tilapia for the 2006 spring stocking. By December 31, 2005, we had over 1200 lbs of tilapia on order for the 2006 stocking.

Like Dave mentioned, with the popularity of these fish on the rise, expect shortages until the supply can keep up with the demand.

As water becomes an increasingly more valuable commodity, expect that awareness and knowledge of this industry will contine to grow. Can't wait to see the developments in pond and lake "technology" in the years to come!

Never underestimate the value of the careful attention you pay to your body of water...no matter how small or how big...the pond management decisions you make today, will make an impact for years to come.

I build a new pond two years ago with info from Pond Boss and contacted Dunn's thru their web site: www.dunnsfishfarm.com/. I talked to them, bought according to their recommendations(and Pond Boss) of 1000 coppernose, 100 bass and 100 catfish per acre stocked at different time. I am completely satisfied with their fish and free advice. The fish were not just thrown in the pond but slowly acclimiated to the water. I would not hesitate to buy from them again. Look at their site for a lot of good info. The coppernose are over 1 lb, catfish 6 lbs and bass over 1 1/2 lbs in less than two years in my one acre pond in south Arkansas.
Bruce Switzer, Crossett, AR

Well, Mr. Switzer, congratulations. Sounds like a well balanced pond. A success story, and started from stocking the correct number of fish, on a good schedule. That's about exactly what would be recommended here in Iowa, by IDNR.

Bruce, good post. Glad things have worked out right for you.

Hey Trent, have you had reports from the various city ponds that you stocked? How did that go?

Bruce's post about Dunn's may help solidify my point about having the benefit of Pond Boss before going to fish suppliers, pond builders, etc.

I think this also helps amplify everyone's Brady Bunch caveat emptor thing, but before Pond Boss, it was harder for the buyer to beware.