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#54883 06/09/05 03:07 PM
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I have a pond (3 to 5 acres)that was built in spring of 2004 but filled before the work was completed. About half the pond is flooded timber and too shallow. Currently I have siphoned pond down to get at most of the trees and shallow area. I have two questions. First I have a few willow trees (small, maybe 5 feet tall) remaining in the area of the pond that is still full of water. They are just sticking out of the water on one straight root maybe 2 inches thick. How do I get rid of these ? Thought about just cutting them down but will they just sprout again? My second question is about the trees and brush that are in the pond area now? I want to use some of it for cover. Can I just push it into loose piles with dozer or will it float?

#54884 06/09/05 03:30 PM
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I would try to obliterate the willows no matter what it takes. I have gone down and tied a rope to them and pulled them with a tractor.

On the knocked down brush it depends on what type of water you have as to whether they are suitable. I did that with fresh oak and the tannin came out of them and poisoned my water. I tried stocking and it was lethal. I had to pump the pond dry. Cut a piece of it and put in a bucket of pond water. If it turns the water black, burn them.

#54885 06/09/05 03:38 PM
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Having cut many a trees with my dad in my life, I think you will still have them grow back, if you don't get the root and all out of the ground.
I have never cut down a willow, but it makes sense to me.

#54886 06/09/05 03:44 PM
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Yes, the way they love and seek water, they are probably happier now than ever.

#54887 06/09/05 04:30 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I thought about getting in the boat and going out to the willows and "painting" the leaves with a paint brush with roundup or something (being careful not to get any in the water) like you can do in your garden to kill weeds that are next to plants that you dont want to harm.

#54888 06/09/05 05:19 PM
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Newtx,

Don't use Roundup, even small amounts can be harmful to the fish...see this article

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000136

I've had outstanding success with Reward on small willows...it really burns them and they don't seem to come back, even though it isn't a systemic killer as I understand. Kelly will correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am....

#54889 06/10/05 12:51 AM
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use ortho brush and poison ivy killer straight, with paint brush around the outside circumference of the top of tree stumps. It is 8% triclopyr(a salt similar to glyphosate). It will kill any stump dead. I have killed hundreds of sweet gums and tallows in and around my pond.
ML, I have read that and other articles about roundup in particular. It is not the glyphosate, but the surfactant in it. Use Eliminator weed killer(41% glyphosate). Twice strength as Roundup and 1/2 the cost. I have used a mixture of the triclopyr and eliminator and sprayed the big trees around edge of pond. Waiting to see the results. Did last wk. I sprayed from boat using a DC pump and 5 gal bucket. Of course some got in the water, but did not damage the shiners and bluegills at all. I think some of those articles are written by Greenpeace or similar. Maybe if a goldfish is given straight glyphosate for 2 wks straight in controlled conditions, there may be an allergic reaction. \:D Both herbicides above from Walmart.


#54890 06/10/05 01:26 AM
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If you put the cut willows in your pond for cover, make sure they are completly dried out. Willows will sprout from cuttings if they have adaquate moisture.


I'll start treating my wife as good as my dog when she starts retrieving ducks.
http://geocities.com/h20fwlkillr/
#54891 06/10/05 12:53 PM
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We need Kelly to weigh in on this thread.

I understand that it is the surfactant in Roundup that causes the problem...but an 85% kill rate for amphibians, whatever the cause, is not something I want at my pond. This year, for the first time, I have noticed a stunning population of frogs and didn't figure out why until just now...no Roundup in the past 18 months. Before that, absolutely no frogs, tadpoles, etc. in a pond treated "carefully" by Roundup.

burgermeister,

I think this is more than a greenpeace issue...I think it is real. Missing frogs for three years are my evidence. Do you know for sure that Ortho brush killer is labeled for use around ponds? If so, I will try it, if not, no thanks.

#54892 06/10/05 01:36 PM
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I have many species of frogs and many and various sizes of tadpoles and small frogs from 1/2 in. to tadpoles 3 inches. This is months after first using eliminator and triclopyr for killing stumps, which were later covered with water after spring rains. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That is why I recommended a different glyphosate, eliminator, instead of roundup. I know it has done wonders for me with no harm, as you know roundup has done devastation to amphibians. I have searched diligently for specific surfactants in different products, but it seems that everyone is tight lipped. I know I had rather have less frogs than the condition I had, but then again, I didnt put herbicide directly into the water.
Thats what makes this forum so great. different views and experiences with different and similar products. As has been said many times, it is all about your objectives.


#54893 06/13/05 11:12 AM
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The Willow trees are standing in water 5 to 6 feet deep. Cutting them down on land would be easy, but in the water? I was thinking I could get a chain around them and try to pull them out with the tractor (or dozer) but I thought if I left any roots they would just grow back.

#54894 06/13/05 11:22 AM
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Maybe I am lucky???? I have been using glyphosate for the last two years to control weeds around and in the pond. I have had no adverse impacts to any type of fish/frogs/ crayfish..... The most beneficial use is the control of emergent weeds when they reach the surface. I mist the covered surface area and two weeks later they have died and fallen to the bottom. I try to divide the area treated into sections to mitigate the impact on decaying matter on the oxygen levels. Glyphosate is a nerve agent and can be harmful in large doses; the chemist I have consulted with feels the diluted amount out of a sprayer in conjunction with the huge dilution once it hits the surface would be unlikely to harm fish. In treating the weeds around the pond you spray when the weeds are tall and the frogs and other small animals never come in contact. Once the glyphosate reacts with the plant material it loses its harmful effect so even my grass carp have no impact when they eat the leftover material. I would spray the willow and watch it die off and then cut it down

#54895 06/14/05 02:42 AM
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Willows will send off suckers even if the stump is under water.


I'll start treating my wife as good as my dog when she starts retrieving ducks.
http://geocities.com/h20fwlkillr/
#54896 06/16/05 02:07 PM
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I think BCFs idea of destroying a circle of bark and mine of a dose of salt(gly or tri) is doing the same thing, destroying the cambian (sp) layer which sprouts come from. If you're afraid of the surfactant in roundup, paint it with an equatic version, which has no surfactant(alcohol, tallow etc.) If still afraid, mix up a strong paste of table salt and water, maybe a little elmers glue. Lots of flora have been killed wih salt before chemicals.
Also better tie off the boat if using a chain saw. Not much leverage.



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