Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Natural balance

I have a 12 acre lake that is over 50 years old. It was built as a flood control lake by the state on private land. The concrete riser pipe has a 1 sq. ft. drain hole 8 feet down from the top of the riser with a 24 inch concrete exit pipe. 11 years ago the lower drain opening on the spillway was plugged by beavers (according to the previous owner) raising the level of water 8 feet. Raising the water to 13 feet at the deepest. The lake still has a freeboard of 10 feet with an emergency grass spillway 100 feet wide and 3 feet higher than the riser. The new level flooded about 6 acres of timber. I bought this property in October of 2001. I was told that the lake was stocked from traps from local waters. They said before they stocked the water was full of minnows as the water was only 5 feet deep. Other than stocking 11 yrs. ago, there wasn't any management by the previous owner, only limited fishing by the owner and his family. By fishing I have sampled the fish. LMB of all sizes with 4-6 lbs. not uncommon with a couple 7-10 lbs. White Crappie all sizes with 8-11 inches very common, and a few 14 - 15 inches. A lot of RE all sizes with the biggest 11.25 inches. BG all sizes with 7.5 - 9.5 very common with the biggest 11.25 inches. I have seen Green Sunfish at night at the edges but have only caught one. Bullhead Catfish are abundant all sizes. The only management I do is remove mud and sticks from the drain as the beavers try to dam it up. There are a lot of steep hills in the watershed with a lot of sediment coming in with heavy rains. The water is always muddy. If I trap the beavers the Watershed Board will clean out the lower drain lowering my lake back down. (so they have told me)

The excess nutrient from the rotting trees in the lake and leaves from the completely wooded watershed are causing pondweed problems. The pondweed covers maybe 25% to 30% in the summer and expanding each year. If I treat the pondweed the chemicals will most likely be washed downstream. I can't change any physical features without the permission of the Watershed Board.

Right now the fishing meets my goals other than the bullhead.

If I do nothing but fish, how long do you think before the balance changes for the worse?

A flathead fisherman told me that bullhead was the preferred food for flathead Catfish. If I were to stock flathead or channel catfish what would you think would happen to the existing population? and how many should I stock?

Does anybody have any input helpful or not?

David, I purchased my pond & land about 6 years ago, and your story sounds similar to mine in that the pond seemed to have a natural balance. I was told that the pond was stocked with smallies back in the '70s. When I bought the pond, it had LMB, Crappie, Bluegill, Bullheads, perch, as well as suckers. My pond is also fed by a stream inlet and outlet.

The biggest LMB that I've seen caught was about 5 lbs. I've seen numerous bass of this size in the pond also.

Now I believe that if you have a good LMB population, that the LMB will eat the bullheads, but won't eradicate them. I don't feel like my pond was "overrun" with bullheads.

In the last year or so, I've been doing some stocking with additional LMB, SMB, perch, bluegill, some channel cats, a few HSB, and some trout. I've also put in a 100+ lbs of shiners and roughly the same of fatheads. I also put in about 8,000 crayfish.

Whatever I've done, I feel that I have altered the natural balance that the pond may have had 6 years ago. But I also believe that ponds go through cycles. My pond is in the 6 acre range and is more than 50 years old from what I've been told.

Fishing this year was not that great, but then again, I did not get to spend as much time at my pond this past summer as my wife and I were expecting a baby.

Hey David, it almost sounds like the damming of the outflow has done you a favour... 5 foot deep water throughout is a possible recipe for a weed choked lake, especially with the level of sediment inflow you describe. It would likely be much worse then it is now without your added depth. Is the wooded area flooded significantly... re. more then 1 foot of water?

Are there any obvious flows of water into the lake that you could create sediment ponds in to trap out some before it gets to the main water body?

A good place to start with species control is to catch out as many Green sunfish and Bullheads you can. (You may need to resort to trapping out the bullheads if they are present in significant numbers).

From a structural standpoint, do you see any weak areas on the damn that could be a problem with the extra depth or in the event of a major inflow activity? (Sounds like the properly sized emergency spillway is in place and should be able to handle excess emergency flow... the fact that it is still 3 feet higher then current depth leads me to believe the damn was created with the intent of being able to store at least as much water as you currently have, without issue.) How much continuous in or outflow do you have? How much of the current outflow system would you say is used? (i.e. could;d even a small amount of extra inflow cause another rise in water height) Can the existing outflow be further impaired by beavers?

Lots of things to think about...

DC - If you keep your bass population strong the bass will keep the bullheads from becoming overabundant. LMB like to eat bullheads. Also if you spend some time fishing for or targeting bullheads this will help reduce their numbers. You can bait an area with cut bait, chopped offal, cut up fresh road kill or halved dead minnows/foragefish and catch lots of bullhads during dusk or early evening in these baited areas.

If you have all sizes of bullheads, the ones greater than 9" are pretty good eating when fried. Our family always ate bullheads in Canada when we caught them while bobber fishing for perch or walleye. They are best tasting when water is less than 80F. Some consider bullheads a delicacy when smoked. I have eaten them fired and smoked and both ways they were good and better than LMB that I have eaten. I very rarely eat LMB and only those that are bleeding when deeply hooked.

I would not stock flathead catfish into your pond. If you do, you will see your LMB populations also decrease. LMB will do as good or better job of keeping bullheads under control as flathead catfish.

Grass carp do a great job on Pondweed. They eliminated it completely for me.

Thanks everyone! The LMB are catch and release only. I remove 300-400 adult BG and 200-300 crappie a year for the frying pan. There are no dropoffs in the lake just a gentle slope from the 3 creeks to the deepest point. So the timber is in an inch to 8 feet of water. The deepest water was probably more than 5 feet before the lake was raised, but I don't know how much sediment has come in. The main creek (over a mile long) has mutiple beaver dams close to the lake which I think helps a little with the sediment. One of the creeks isn't very long and I see a lot of erosion along it. But that corner of the lake along with the creek is on state property. The flow of water thru the lake is constant except in the summer. On heavy rains I have seen the water right at the emergency spillway height. That's probably 40 acre feet of water on top of the 24 inch outflow pipe. My neighbor is the son of the previous owner. He told me that he has seen it go over the emergency spillway several times. The beavers have built up mud and sticks around the riser up to the water level and keep trying to raise the water even higher. I remove mud and sticks about once a month.

I would like to try grass carp but afraid they would go out thru the spillway.

I have fished about 1000 hrs. in the last 3 years in this lake and have only caught one greenie. I have netted 6 of them at night from the edges.

I'll try trot lines for the bullhead, no flatheads.

Will HSB or Channels do well in this lake?

As this lake is probably in the best part of the cycle. Should I do nothing (other than the trot lines) and just wait for the cycle to end, drain, cleanout, and restock?

DC - If you desire a little more diversity, in my opinion HSB would be better than channel cats primarily because c.cats could spawn and young could survive in your pond due to abundant habitat. Less risk with HSB compared to c.cats. You have more control of the fishery with a non-spawning predator such as HSB. You could try a few HSB as a bonus fish, unles you have a strong desire to clean&eat channel cafish. If you do, then you should be eating the larger bullheads; taste and texture is similar to c.cats.

HSB have been found in some studies to have only a low or moderate competitive impact on LMB. But since you do not have a forage fish that lives primarily in open water the HSB will eat primarily the same food items that would have been eaten by some of the LMB, so at least some competition for natural food items between the two will occur. As worst case, I would plan to lose one LMB in the future for every HSB that you stock. With a loss of each LMB, that will mean you will likely see a few more bullheads survive since their habitat or niche is commonly similar to that of LMB. HSB in your pond will no doubt eat some LMB fingerlings that frequent the open water or its edges. HSB are noticably faster swimmers than LMB. Implementing a feeding program will reduce the HSB competition with LMB.

PS. You should be keeping track of the condition factors and sizes of LMB that you catch because you are managing as catch&release. This form of management without occasional harvest of appropriate sized LMB usually results in an over abundant and skinny population of LMB. You want to be aware of this and try to avoid it from happening.

I would just fish it until the pondweed takes over 45% of the lake. Then drain it, clean it out, build channels and ledges, then restock it without the bullheads and greens. Maybe the state would help foot the bill since it is a flood lake. Have you contacted anybody from the state about this lake?

I talked with someone from the Watershed Board three years ago. They said that they have 5 lakes to manage with a limited budget. They said after paying for mowing that they had only a little money left to cover drainage problems. Like removing beaver dams from spillways and such. The first year I was here, they mowed the dam and emergency spillway. From the second year on I have done it because they only mow once a year.

I would like to drain the lake some day and make improvements. But being that all the spoils would have to go to the back side of the dam, it would be very expensive. Because anything removed below the waterline and placed above the waterline would decrease the flood water storage of the lake.