Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations help help help

My dream of being a pondmeister was destroyed last week and I didn't even know it was happening. My 3 acre pond received around 9" of rain starting july 4, over the next 5 days it pumped more water out of the overflow than Niagra Falls. The local reservoir is only approximately 1/4 mile from my property and there is a "drainage" ditch that runs from my neighbors property into the reservoir. When my pond overflows, it drains naturally over the top of my neighbors field and into this ditch, which then helps fill the reservoir. With all of this rain the Buffalo Carp, swam up this creek, through my neighbors property, and onto my property like a bunch of salmon. They were swimming in just 2-4" of water for about 200 yards and were setting at the base of my overflow pipes as if they were waiting on the flow to decrease so that they could climb right on in my pond. When I saw this I was immediately disturbed. I ran the the farm supply store, bought some chicken wire and put a fence all around the base of my dam to keep the damn things away. Ahhh $54 well spent right? Well it turns out that I should have bought a one million volt electrical fence the Zap the stupid lady that trespassed and worked for 4-5 hours, according to the neighbors, putting all of my "poor fish back into my pond that got out." I can't find out who the lady is, but my best guess is that she put a couple hundred of these stupid carp into my lovely pond.

I have bought the magazines, purchased the management books, and studied more about this pond than I did in college, just to have my dreams SHATTERED by some ignorant lady. I would like everyone to please help with any opinions with eradicating these fish. I bought a gill net and set it last night, within 20 minutes I caught 5 of these carp, but there is noway this net will fix my problem. My local pond pros won't return my calls, so I turn to all of you. Should I wipe out the entire pond and start fresh, should I drain the pond (which would be terribly difficult because of the huge amount of watershed), or should I have someone shock the lake every couple years and just pay through the nose for that?? Please Please Please help, even call me if you can help. If you email me, I will give the telephone number if you think you can help. I also wondered about building my own boat to shock with, but I have no idea how to start that project. Thanks for any help in advance. I really need it.

Craig, My condolences. I think I'd have a carp fishing contest. The only problem there is that you kinda "owe" the people who help you with your current problem.

I wouldn't start over and electroshocking won't get them all. It is mostly for sampling.

I thought I was the only one that got that kind of help.

Craig, I don`t think that this is such a major problem. I would just start a feeding program in one location on the pond. Those carp will start feeding there. I had a friend who had carp in his bass pond due to a creek spilling into it. Shooting those feeding carp with a bow is a lot of fun, heck, I work in Muncie and would love to help! I know about the heavy rain in this area, my pond really came up! My contractor said I was the only person in Blackford county who was smiling about the water!

If i was you i would try to quickly get rid of these water muddying, pond wrecking trash fish. They are very prolific fish and have had them spawn twice a year. You will first notice them to change the clarity of the water then in a few weeks you will have no vegitation in your pond. If they are spawning you will notice them in groups of 3 to 5 on the surface swimming. Thats when you get the .22mag. They you usally spawn twice after a big rain like you have had. The way i locate these fish is to go early in the morning right after sunrise and look for a point in a pond with vegitation. Then go real quitely to the edge of the water. Look for tailing and movement in the water. Then get a castnet with a 4.5 radious or better to net these fish.

Did i mention that the only fish that i have noticed to control these fish are Alligator Gar?

Incredible story. Carp like to swim upstream. Do you have a ditch running water into your pond that you could construct a net across to lower when the next big rain occurs?

I liked the idea of feeding them and using a bow. Or you might could feed them and get the used to regularly entering a cove to feed, then stretch your gill net across that cove while they are feeding.

I think your best bet is to do some of all the above. Every method you can use to remove them.

If I'm not mistaken, the latest issue of Pond Boss has an article on removing large amounts of unwanted carp.

thanks for the input, i know i have to get rid of them, just not sure if i want to start over at this point. if i keep trying to remove them, i am afraid that in 5-6 years i will be overrun by them. if i start over in 5-6 years i would be catching quality bass again. thanks and i'll look at my last issue again, but i don't remember anything about carp, but, i didn't have this problem when i got my issue a few weeks ago.

Sorry Craig, I was mistaken. The article was in the July August 2000 issue. It is a back issue I ordered recently so it was new to me If you want I can scan the article and email it to ya. Sorry for the misinformation!

You might also try feeding them a can of corn every evening at the same time in the same spot and then when you are confident that they have all learned to come for their dinner give them a can of corn treated with rotenone. I've heard of people doing this to eradicate unwanted grass carp (except with grass clipings instead of corn).

just a thought
-Scott

A 22 rifle will do wonders. Catch them late in the evening with their backs showing out of the shallows. Good target practice.

While sampling fish on the mississippi river, we used a variety of nets and traps. I would think that a few large hoop nets and some dog fod or soybean cake will make a dramatic dent in your pond. They are easy to set even with one person and a boat. Netcraft or memphis net and twine are two possible suppliers. If you have a high bass population they should be able to keep up with the reproduction of any left over.
Robert Burke fishmgr@hotmail.com

Could one of our resident experts share with us the spawning habits of Carp?
I would think this would be extremly valuable information to somone trying to eradicate them. If you know where and when they are going to spawn you may be able to hunt for the aduld fish and destroy the nests so that you can complete your war against the carp while their numbers are still limited.

again, just a thought
-Scott

I would find out who the woman was and take her to court. Make here pay for a complete restoration of the pond. Line up your witnesses, and let her have it. She's probably one of those idiots that thinks hunting and fishing is terrible.

I once watched someone putting carp back into the water when they floated ashore from a state reclamation with rotenone. They couldn't bare seeing those fish suffer. I guess they don't know where that meat comes from in the grocery stored in the plastic wrap. Idiots!

Ok, my mind is back on the pond again. I've read all your posts and believe me, nothing and I mean nothing would be more fun than popping these carp with a bow or .22. However process this seems a little slow. The gill net that I purchased takes about an hour to stretch out and set up, then an hour or two of waiting. The first set I caught 5 of the things, (2 in less than 30 seconds) the second set only produced 1 for the coyotes to eat. I'll be back at it Tuesday and Wednesday. I have finally decided to buy some fish feeders hoping to draw them to the same place everyday. I plan to set the net for 24 hours and place them around the feed source.

I have been dissapointed in the low response from the pros. I know this is a rare problem of sorts, but I sure would like some more information or suggestions. My closest pond management source wants $3800 to eradicate the pond with me doing all of the clean up. That might be more acceptable if I didn't have to pay thousands to restock and then wait a few more years to catch quality bass again. If I add the cost of stocking originally, the cost of eradication, and the cost of restocking, I'm looking at about $8-9k. Now I'm not poor, but that's a whole lot of dough. (not carp dough either!) Please keep sending your ideas.

Keep using the gill net. The only way it can be a problem is if some of your larger sport fish get caught in it. Also when you get them on the feeding program try the hoop or gill net to sein them out. The ones you miss will keep coming to the feed and you can tap them with the .22mag. If you see there backs out of the water make sure you shoot them below the lateral line or they might not die. The process may be slow but it is the only way.

Craig,

I may not one be of those pros, but if your pond consultant wanted that much to eradicate the fish with rotenone he must NOT have considered draining the pond down to use less.


You could study and get a pesticide applicators license so you can purchase the rotenone yourself, and apply the amount you need after draining the pond down, so you don't need to use as much. Here is a site you can go to in Indiana to find out when the test is. I was planning on checking it myself but haven't yet.

http://www.isco.purdue.edu/

I studied and took a pesticide applicators license test when I was in college studying fisheries and it was not that difficult. That was in Michigan though.

Only downside is the test may not be offered soon or may be offered next year. As I said I have not checked the site so I do not know.

On the positive side it's too late in the year for your rough fish to spawn. So if you manage to irradicate them before next spring you should be home free. If you have just one female and male of the same species left next spring you may never erradicate them unless you start all over.

I would keep doing what you are doing, but find out about taking the pesticide applicators license test in the meantime if you have to go to plan B. It would save you a lot of money.

BTW I'm sure you are aware that bullets can rickoshet off water so be careful!

Common carp reproduction (I need to be careful to say common carp, as the grass, silver, bighead, and now even black carps are expanding in the U.S., and reproduction differs among these species):

Common carp will spawn in spring or early summer. Most reports say that water must at least get into the low 60's F. Spawning typically ceases by the time water temps reach upper 70s or low 80s. They usually spawn in groups, and are very noisy and easy to observe up in shallow water.

These carp have sticky (adhesive) eggs. Given a choice, they prefer to spawn on something like flooded terretrial plants and grasses in lakes or reservoirs. Typical spring rises in water levels are highly suited to their reproduction. The eggs stick to the plants until they hatch. However, common carp are probably the most successful fish species that I have ever seen. Thus, I have no doubt that they will at times successfully on almost any type of lake bottom.

The young carp grow very quickly, and will often outgrow most predators within a short time. This is one of the reasons that they are difficult to control.

I'm not sure how to tie reproductive strategy of carp to controlling them in a pond. In some reservoirs, biologists will raise the water level during spring and flood shoreline vegetation. Then, after the common carp spawn, they will drop the water level a couple of feet and try to strand the eggs. Just how successful this actually is at reducing carp abundance has not been well documented. Whether this method would apply to pond depends on available water supply, I guess. :-)

Dave

The thing is these are not Common Carp! They are buffalo fish. They are a different fish! Don't confuse them with carp because these fish are a different battle. They are opportunist. If you have had a flood like you said they may spawn again. Last year during the flood of July in South Texas, I personally saw these fish spawning. I knew that they were spawning because 3 weeks later i netted up hundreds of fingerlings in my sein. Not to be a sour apple but as soon as these fish invaded my 35 acre lake they overtook by this spring! Now i can have any pondweed or hydrilla for my little fishies protection not to mention muddy water where you cant see 3 inches down. If you see them on the surface swimming in pairs or 3 they are spawning! Elimante them before they can release there eggs! The only way to rid your pond of them is to use a gillnet and use a feeder like said earlier. Another thing is that they just dont eat vegitation. I have seen them raid my bluegill nest and suck and root where you cant even tell that there was a nest there. They also eat small fish and crayfish if they have the chance. Just another way i thought to catch them out is to set a trotline with #6 trebles with corn for bait.

The only fish that can control these fish are Alligator Gar! If you ever look at the river that have had all the big gar taken out are now overpopulated with carp and buffalo! If you want to put gator gar in your pond to help which is fine if you dont care if they eat a few other fish. Another thing about the gar is that they are easy to take when you don't want them anymore because on hot summerdays they float on the surface which is easy .22 fodder.

Sorry, Zach. I'm not sure how or when we made the jump from carp to buffalo fish.

You sure are right -- the buffalo fish is an entirely different fish. The buffalo fishes are members of the sucker family, and are native to the United States. The common carp is a member of the minnow family, and is not native to the US.

The two most common species of buffalo fishes are the bigmouth and smallmouth buffalo. The bigmouth buffalo is primarily a filter feeder, and can really affect zooplankton abundance. The smallmouth buffalo looks more like the common carp, at least with the same type of mouth adapted to feeding on the bottom. They feed a lot on aquatic insects.

The buffalo fish tend to spawn just a little earlier than the carp. However, I looked in a couple of books, and they reported a spawning temperature of about 60 F.

Both the bigmouth and smallmouth prefer to spawn on flooded terrestrial grasses in the spring, much like carp. Again, they spawn in backwaters or rivers, and will drop eggs on other types of vegetation or debris as well. In large reservoirs, they tend to have strong year classes in years with high spring water levels, which provides the best spawning habitat.

So, the orignal request from jbrockey was for common carp spawning information. When the conversation turned to buffalo fish, then I thought this might provide similar information (just in case anyone is interested).

Dave

Craig,
I believe that you have received some good advice from the people that have already responded. I do not believe that you want to rotenone your pond though that would mean starting over again. I believe that you are doing the right thing now and should continue with it. You may find that you have got the most of the carp already not knowing how many she had "replaced" placed in your pond. This is a very unfortunate thing that she did and I agree that you should try to find out who it was that helped you and recoup your costs plus labor. Keeping in mind the quote that you had from your local "pro". Good luck with you pond and hope that things come out well for you.

Look at the topic. It says "Buffalo Carp." Anyone that i have heard say that meant a big or smallmouth buffalo. the thing i was trying to get across is this is not a common carp. They are differ in more ways than one and i didn't want Craig to get a wrong explanation to fix this problem. So if i sounded like a jerk I give you an Apology but i just didn't want this guy to get the wrong message.

Most people can't recognize the diference between the common carp and two species of buffalo suckers. The lady could have easily transplanted several types of fish into Craig's pond.

Hey Zach -- certainly no offense was intended or taken. I was just trying to provide a little general information.

Dave