Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Green sunfish

I bought a property with a 2-acre pond over the winter. Now that it's spring, I've had it shocked, only to find that it is populated with green sunfish (mostly 2" to 4" long). No catfish, and very few bass (although those that I have are big, thanks to the sunfish population). Absolutely no bluegill. The experts advice: kill the fish this fall, stock with bluegill, then follow that with bass next spring. I'm going to take his advice. But it was quite disappointing to hear the bad news.

I received same news last year in August and immediately began draining for the rotenone kill Well there was one difference, a 20 lb channel cat. There were no intermediate green sunfish and few bass to speak of.

I was quite disappointed myself, however, I have learned more than I probably ever would have otherwise going through this process. So there is a neat side to it. I put lime in while the waters were down last fall, and I've got the restocking and fertilizing underway now.

Enjoy the experience! Now if you've done it all before, enjoy reliving it again

Good Luck with it!

I would like to give you another choice to maybe save you alittle money and time you will find that there will be alot that think this is a bad idea but it might draw out some other ideas that you can look through to get the best course of action.If I was in your shoes I would save the forage base that you have already started.I would stock some 12 to 14 inch bass at slightly under normal rates then sit back and watch them grow adding more if you don't see a reduction in the sunfish.Set up a cage to grow your bluegill.Then stock them when there ready.If you talk to Shan he will get the bass that you need to pull this off.This is just a alternate way for you to think about don't know the lake or the populations of sunfish to be exact but like you said the bass that you have are big and they got that way for a good reason. DOC

Lake DOc yor answer is a short term fix. Yes the bass will grow initially but if the green populaiton is real high with no bluegill then you will never have the pond most quality bass folks desire. I have recommended the same as you mentioned when folks insist on not draining. It is a matter of the goals of the pondowner.

You're exactly right, GrEg,I did not say that this is a permanent fix.The plan that I laid out was a quick fix. But with our help we can give this guy the best 2 to 3 years of fishing in his life.I would love to do this for everybody on this forum.That in my mind is why I'm doing this.I hate to think that I am doing this to make money because I'll quit. That is the most stressful ungratifying thing that I could do on here.This is the best place to be the best that I can be .If I did it for any other reason it's not fun.You and I and any pro that post on here knows that this man is not in trouble but in the place to do something.I want to help him not send him in another direction.He would and I would take 2to3years of the best bass fishing that you could find over spending 2to3 years trying to get this lake the way the pros think it could be.That's what I want to do for pond owners that I work for and the pond owners on here. DOC

LakeDoc, Let me say I enjoy reading your post, but disagree with you on many points. I stated I mentioned the same as you when folks insist on not draining. However, I try my best to convince them to drain it. I work with folks who want the best pond around, and short term is not there mind set.

I can take a pond that is drained, rotenoned and properly restocked and manged, and get 5 lb bass in less than three years. It will only go uphill from there. The guy who stocks more bass will have good fishing for a year then too many bass, not enough big forag due to grenn sunfish. Guess what he and then just lost a year of reaching a true great bass fishery.

Like I said its about goals, some folks will listen to you (I'm glad your here), some my listen to me or others on the board who take the more scientific approach.

Wouldn't it be More costly to try and correctively stock a pond such as these every 2 to 3 years then just do it right the first time. And I thought the bluegills that are recommended for stocking here interbreed with the green sunfish. Those green males are so agressive that you would end up with them being the dominant in the end again after a few years of breading. It would seem like more of a hassle shocking/seining and readjusting every few years. But I'm just a "non pro", what do I know hehe, maybe I went the wrong way

I dont think draining and restocking is any more or less scientific than stocking adult bass. there is much to understand in both situations. I think Lakedoc is used to the slower growing northern bass therefore he is not as willing to start over. It is an option to stock adult bass and fix the situation. I have done it several times. You will encounter restocking cost of bluegill for several years but some people are not willing to kill their fish, period. if they are willing to accept the cost of fish stocking then I say stock away. I dont think one way will be any less expensive than the other, there are significant costs for both solutions.

If I owned the pond there would not be much of a decision for me. I would drain and start over. If stocked properly I have seen bass grow to 16 inches in the first year. Of course that is assuming the pond is in the south. If the pond was further north I may consider the other option.

I think you can get started much faster than stocking bluegill this fall. there are ways to establish the pond this year and stock all the fish this year. It costs a little more but it wont break the bank for a 2 acre pond. it can be done this year.

The guy asking the question is in AL and I considered his location b/f my backup of the electro guys suggestion to drain.

Tally so far...me, Shan, Jm and hired consultant all said best to drain. Lake doc thanks for your alternative it is a good option, but I kinda got rubbed the wrong way with the wording of your post. Sorry if I overreacted but I just wanted to clarify why I said what I said.

Is rotenone the only option? What about inducing summer kill or winter kill (in the north)? Are these as effective or are you bound to miss sum greenies?
I've heard that stunted pan fish populations can be combated with vegetation removal which increases bass predation. Would the corrective stocking work better if it included enough grass carp to eat the pond bare?

Bigoldbooger,great name.There you have it 5 pros to advise you and give you the best course to take.There is all the info you need to make the right decision.Greg thanks for your input I learn alot about the management tech.that is used down south.Shan you are right about the different way that we manage up north.To grow a 5 pound bass from fry is in most cases 4to5 years.TW,that question is a good one I have a great story about a lake that I manage.It is 63 acres.Average depth about6'.It was run over with milfoil to the point that you could not get a boat on it anywhere.It was over run with 2to3" bluegill.It had a good bass population but was starting to stunt and stress.I treated the milfoil cleaned up the lake .The most amazing thing happened. The next year this lake produced the best bass fishing money can buy.With one day of fishing in just 1 hour I caught 15 bass, the smallest being over 2.5 pounds.It was one of the best fishing experiences that I can remember.This spring the bass are ave.4 pounds and are as healthy as I ever seen.This will not happen every time but it is sure nice when it does. DOC

Thanks for the replies and advice guys. My plan is to use rotenone to kill the fish sometime in August or September, and to begin the restocking in October (begging the question, how long is the rotenone harmful to fish?). However, there is one thing that might alter my decision. The dam is leaking rather badly...probably 2 to 4 gallons per minute. It may have been going on for years, and could continue for years more before anything drastic happens to the dam. Then again, it could blow out tomorrow. Could this alter my long-term management plans? Also, consider that my goal is to have good fishing for the next five years (it is likely that I will be transferred 4 to 6 years from now). Given this information, does this change your recommendations? I really appreciate everyone's advice and willingness to share your years of experience and knowledge.

Rotenone last longer the colder the water. A week or so when temps are in the 50's. In AL in August you may be able to put fish in the next day. Use a test fish to see if water is safe. I'm sure you know this but rotenone is a restriced use pesticide and you will have to have a certified commericial applicator do this for you.

WHy the heck are you waiting until August? As Shan mentioned you can rotenone now and still put in all your fish this year if you do it right. Why not use the time you have the lake drained to fix the leak on the dam.

Big OB That would sure change the way that I would manage the pond.It depends on how much money that you want to spend.If you are sure that you are going to only be there for 4to6 years then I would try to go the quick fix repair as needed plan.There is no sense in putting alot of money into something that you are not going to reap the benefits.Talk to Shan about the fish and I will be going thru Alabama next week if you need that leak looked at. Doc

It always perks my interest when someone says they have big bass! If you are willing to spend the money for the survey, the fish kill and the restocking are you really willing to take a chance and not fix the dam? Risk/Reward?? If you're there for only a few years and you already have 7+lb bass, invite the scout troop over for the weekend tell them you will donate a dollar for every pound of sunfish they pull out then add some more bass and bluegill. Enjoy the big fish you catch, take some pictures and when the dam does break you'll have a chance to start all over from scratch.

I AM NOT A PRO, THIS IS NOT PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, just hate to see BIG fish lost.

Here's what I've decided to do: kill the sunfish (next week, as opposed to this fall). Then, stock it with 1,500 to 2,000 3" to 5" coppernose bluegill. Fertilize the pond, of course. I don't need to lime (how 'bout that?). Also stock some grass carp and fathead minnows. Late summer stock 200 bass fingerlings. I will be on a feeding program immediately. My hope is that by later summer there will be a large number of catchable bluegill in the 5-8" range (fun for my boys), and by next summer I'll have some decent bass fishing. The following year, the bass will be bigger, and by year 3 everything should be just right.

Holly crap it sounds like you are doing just what I recommended to do. Now if I can just my paying clients to do the same there would be some good fishing out there. Seriuosly it sounds like your doing exactly what I would recommend with the information you provided. Quickly...I think 1500 3-5 bg are plenty. Also I would sotck 150 fingelring bass instead of 200. This will start towards a better bass quality from the get go. Did you know you can get 3-5 inch grass carp? It will save you some money. If you continue to follow your consultants recommendations you will have a better pond than I think you even realize in less than two years. Keep us posted.

I agree, sounds good. you may have problems finding bass fingerlings during late summer. thats the only catch I see in the plan.

Great point SHan. AMerican SPortfih did have them through Auguist this year. Although they do not gurantee to keep bass fingelrings that long, and they do cost more of course.