Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction Noob Here!

Hi, and thanks for the add.

I am the founder of Mobility Mountain, a campground designed for persons with disabilities. We are currently seeking land in either Tennessee, Virginia, or West Virginia at an elevation of 2000 feet or more. We are interested in installing a lake on the property that we acquire, but we don't know anything about that process, nor the costs involved. This forum has a lot of amazing and supportive folks who have a combined wealth of knowledge like no other place.

I thought I would reach out here and see what feedback I could get, what advice is out there, and any wonderful ideas to help us make this a reality.

Why the lake?
It is our mission to provide adaptive equipment to disabled adventurers, including adaptive water equipment. A shallow lake would be a wonderful place for guests to explore without the chance of getting rammed by a powerboat or jet ski and it would be a bit more manageable than say, a lake run by another entity.

Let me know your thoughts on this and thank you in advance for your feedback.
You can check out our website here: mobilitymountain.org.

Jeffrey

Welcome to Pond Boss!

We actually have a member in Virginia that does a trout fishing event at his pond every year for disabled veterans.

I have also worked several fishing derby events for kids in wheelchairs. Easily done if you have some strong backs to make safe transfers from dock to boat. I greatly enjoyed the days when I got to take a hundred bass, crappie, bluegill and green sunfish off the hook of a grinning kid!

I have also built trails in New Mexico for people in wheelchairs to be able to reach scenic outlooks. (That was a LOT of switchbacks!)

IMO, you first need to determine the size of lake you require for your adaptive water equipment. You then need to start searching for properties with an existing lake that size or a good location to build a lake of that size.

I have lived in the flattest parts of Kansas most of my life. I think land with slope changes is the more beautiful land. It is also a challenge (in a good way) for people with various levels of physical disabilities. However, too much slope is a challenge for equipment and able-bodied people, and might be insurmountable for disabled people. You may need to determine your maximum permissible slope for much of your facility and make sure your land matches that requirement.

Finally, clearing trees is hard work, but a battle that is easily won to convert the land to your desired usage. People that can walk normally can easily traverse such an area after clearing. We naturally meander along the easiest path. Grinding out all of the stumps and all of the exposed tree roots is MUCH more work to allow ambulatory amputees or people in wheelchairs to cross those areas. Perhaps look for land that is mostly a meadow or similar setting for your main camp facility.

Good luck on your big camp and lake project!

Welcome

I and Oldest daughter have done basically done the same project with 4 long cantilever piers hanging out over water for wheel chairs, and a bermuda walking track around the upper of two ponds. Lower pond has limited access , but working on it . We also included 12 RV sites and a fish population like Norm's in South Dakota , predators including , SMB,WAE,SAE,BCP,RES,BG,GSF,Hybrid SF, CC , and Forage of GSH, Tp, & the smaller spawn of all these species. We provide Veterans on Memorial day , July 4th , Veteran's Day a week over all 3 Holidays free fishing , and 1/2 price fishing the rest of year , 1st responder's and 1st responders drawing pension 1/2 price fishing year round. (Specials for these people on RV spaces also) . Last week of school , we give the district a substantial discount , and we have a crowd of kids that have never fished before . If you wish to pick my brain , PM , and we'll get together on the phone . I has been a joyous program to provide and a blast to watch the Elderly , children , and our Veterans having a great time . May God bless your endeavor.

I think what you guys are doing is great. I enjoy having people to my place and letting kids catch their first fish or have the best day fishing they have ever had. The parents usually enjoy it also

I appreciate the feedback. We are in the land search phase currently and have been looking throughout a few states. I do need some elevation to make this more appealing to amputees. Two of my board members are Army vets and amputees. They made sure that our standard location had to be above 2000 feet to accommodate those with prosthetics.

Building a lake seems like an arduous task, but I know there are wonderful builders out there who know what they are doing. We are looking at a 20-30 acre lake, maybe 10 feet deep or so. Since I am ignorant of lake lingo and building, I am researching as much as possible. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge and info.

Welcome to Pond Boss and thanks for what you are doing.

20-30 acres is a pretty large lake. In many states, the regulations are fairly simple to build the small ponds (appx. 1 acre) like those of many of the people on the forum. Moving up to your size is not just a change in scale, you probably will run into a whole tier of extra regulations.

For example, you will be impounding enough water, that if your dam breaks during a big rain event, there could be loss of life downstream. Lots more regulations when you get into that class. Also, for a 30 acre lake you are most likely going to be damming a stream, or at least an intermittent stream. That probably gets you into federal Corps of Engineering regulations. Further, with that size of lake you may need to secure water rights to impound that much water. There are several places in the Western (drier) states where 100% of the water rights are already allocated. I don't know about the rules in your target states.

Any chance you could get a person with regulatory experience on your board, or at least get them as a volunteer consultant? I think having that type of person might stop you from wasting time following attractive leads that cannot ever be completed due to some regulatory road block.

Perhaps find a property with an existing "ugly" lake of the proper size? (A large, attractive lake will probably already be owned by a wealthy individual or a commercial venture doing a development.) You might be able to drain and renovate an ugly lake to make it attractive and exactly fit your needs.


P.S. I don't understand this part below. Why does elevation matter to people with prosthetics? My father was an amputee (one leg, above the knee) and he lived at a much lower elevation. (Just trying to learn more to help out other people in need.)

Community Fishing Ponds - Pond Boss Forum

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=10933&Number=120247#Post120247

Here guys from Norm.



Jul-Aug 2004 PBM contained 1st article about Norm's pond. .

Kudos to Norm and Jerry Kopecky - Pond Boss Forum
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=5332&Number=49019#Post49019

In these threads note Norm Kopecy – he did just what you are planning and Nate -N8ly who has done these type events on a large scale (community not just handicapped).

Posted by FishinRod:
"Any chance you could get a person with regulatory experience on your board, or at least get them as a volunteer consultant? Having that type of person might stop you from wasting time following attractive leads that cannot ever be completed due to some regulatory road block."

Great idea! I can search for someone knowledgeable in this realm and see what happens. I currently volunteer with USACE, so I might be able to find the right person to help out. Thanks for the advice.

Posted by FishinRod:
"P.S. I don't understand this part below. Why does elevation matter to people with prosthetics? My father was an amputee (one leg, above the knee) and he lived at a much lower elevation. (Just trying to learn more to help out other people in need.)"

When I asked about the standards for the campground, both of my Army bubbas rogered up with this, "We can take the heat all day long. The humidity makes us sweat out of our liners, shrinking our remaining nubs until we drop the prosthetic. The blistering and pain are paramount to enjoying ourselves in nature. Lose the humidity and we can camp, hike, kayak, and whatever else is available with no problem." When I conducted a ton of research, it seems this is a pretty big issue with amputees. Myself, being from Southern Missouri, I get it. Even our sweat sweats there.

To be clear, this is not a fishing pond. I want to build a site that will allow people to utilize adapted kayaks, WaterWheels (think floating wheelchairs), Paddleboards, and other adaptive equipment. I wasn't planning on having a fishing element, but that would be amazing to see or help someone who is blind, reel in a fighting Bass.

I may be off on the lake size. What size do you think would be best for these activities?

Thank you again for all of your help and feedback.

Jeffrey

Without motorized watercraft, I think you can go for a MUCH smaller pond. Are there any ponds near where you currently live or work that you could examine? If so, stand on the bank and visualize the activities and how many people might be on the water at a time. You can then send me a PM (private message) with the exact location of that pond, and I can calculate the acreage of that pond from the satellite image.

Knowing your target pond size will greatly help focus your search to properties that have all of the OTHER features that you want.

Since it is not going to be a fishing pond, you certainly can look at some older ponds that have gotten shallower with age. Also, if you build a pond on the property, shallower can be significantly cheaper. Finally, a shallower pond will be warmer during the summer, especially a pond at elevation that may have frozen over during the winter.

A shallower pond will be subject to more plant growth. That may be good if it keeps down the algae (worst thing in a swimming pond), but can cause problems if the plants get too thick or abundant. However, for an activities/swimming pond, you may be able to nuke as needed with herbicides.

[My discussion above is aimed at a non-fishing pond. Even if you optimized for your adaptive water activities, you can still have pretty good fishing in a pond that is sub-optimal for fish management. Most of the pond discussion on the forum is focused on optimizing for fish, but many people have other goals or multi-use ponds.]


P.S. Thanks for the elevation clarification. Stub care was a constant duty with my father. I should have been able to figure out the humidity problem on my own. However, I do live in flat land, so we only think in two dimensions! The humidity we experience is completely controlled by the weather, not by us changing locations.

FishinRod

I appreciate the feedback. I am looking for property in West Virginia and in Virginia, preferably at the higher elevations. I am not sure how big to make the pond for use by people utilizing kayaks, and other floating equipment. I'll do a little more research and find a similarly used pond and find the acreage on that. Thanks for the advice.

Jeffrey

I love the concept you are trying to emulate, My 14 acre pond is bigger then I can fish and maintain properly I am thinking, and am wanting to set it up for handicapped kids and veterans to enjoy but have no idea where to start.
Currently I don't have power at the lake and it will take over a quarter of a mile of power line and a bunch of clearing, and even more money to make that happen.

I have been mulling it over for a couple yrs now and been in talks with a friend of mine and he would be overjoyed to help. and with the pond having been stocked for about three or four years, the fishing is just starting to get really good

I know a guy here local that does deer hunts for handicapped veterans and I have been contemplating doing that too. I hunt deer and turkey some but would pretty much enjoy seeing someone less fortunate have a blast.

Sounds good to me, gehajake!

How much power do you need at the lake? A big generator is MUCH cheaper than a 1/4 mile of electrical line. (You also then have a big generator available if a tornado hits your town and your house is without power for 30 days.)

A fixed dock that can reach one of your good fishing places is the most convenient way to get multiple disabled people into some fish catching. However all of the handicapped docks I have seen (only a few) have big railings between the fisherman and the water. Nobody wants that. I would probably make a dock with eyebolts in the deck and a strap to attach wheelchairs such that they cannot reach the edge. (Wheelchair seat belts must be worn at all times on the water and on slopes.)

I don't know if that "looks" demeaning (like toddlers on a "leash'), but I will call one of my wheelchair buddies. People that are only paraplegic could do a lot of fishing on their own if there weren't any obstacles in their way!

For amputees that can still walk, perhaps some boat seats on the dock? Then they can swivel and fish. After your event, just pull the chairs out of the plate and put them in your storage shed. The deck plates are almost flush mounts, so your kids could run around the dock the rest of the time. (Or you reinstall the chairs for the kids that are wigglers so they don't scare away the fish!)

Do you have any friends that are Boy Scout leaders? Building handicapped access where the scout has to organize the building project materials and secure the scout labor is guaranteed to be approved as an Eagle Project. If you build the dock, maybe the scouts could build the roof/sunshade over the dock? They could also make the trail to the dock wheelchair accessible.

Just throwing out some thoughts if you keep moving forward on that idea.